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The continuing saga of our fence!

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  • The continuing saga of our fence!

    Sorry if you've only just got acquainted with this saga which began on August 2002 but I really needed to get this off my chest.

    She's finally lost the plot completely!! :nfh1:

    We went away for a long weekend over the Bank Holiday and when we returned discovered that, not only had she removed her retaining wall allowing soil and brick ends to fall into our garden, but also she's removed our chain link fence (again!), and pushed another of our boundary fences away from the support posts to straighten the boundary and annex even more of our land! It is now impossible for the fence to be replaced or repaired from our side as it has been pushed up to the side of our garden shed.

    She's spent several days since we returned attempting to 'build' a stone wall under our wooden fence and thus moved her retaining wall at least 9inches forward onto our garden.We have video of hands reaching under the fence, quietly removing soil from our garden and then carefully placing the stones!

    Our solicitor has been informed and is writing an application for an Injunction and we are definitely going to court to make our neighbour accept the truth - that she is, and always has been, wrong in accusing us of changing the boundary! She appears however incapable of accepting that anyone can erect a fence on their own land- it doesn't mean they are taking over the boundary! The wooden fence we erected last year to stop her harrassing us is not on the boundary line, it is on our land and always has been.

    We can't wait to see what the reaction is when the Injunction lands - last year she said that 'no court would uphold such an accusation against a single elderly lady of limited means.'

    Watch this space!! :banghead:

  • #2
    nice to see you again, but not the reasons though!



    good grief!!



    your garden will disapear soon if she carries on like this!!



    glad you caught it on camera, good luck and let us know how it goes

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi gremlyn and thanks for the update



      Some NFH behaviour will never cease to amaze me :blink: .



      Please do let us know how you get on with the injunction - good luck with it all.

      Comment


      • #4
        Sounds like she is mentally ill. Have her sectioned.



        No, I am not joking. It is for her own good. She needs treatment. I only knew one person who was exactly like this. She was suffering from a mental illness that resulted in her being taken to hospital for long periods.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hang on a minute here.



          Sounds like she is mentally ill. Have her sectioned. No, I am not joking. It is for her own good. She needs treatment.


          Have her sectioned? :huh: Based on what?



          Nothing I've read from the original post would indicate that gremlyn's elderly neighbour is mentally ill. OK, they may be displaying some bizarre behaviour, they may be being inconsiderate, unreasonable, pushing the boundaries (literally) and may be completely eccentric - that doesn't mean that they are mentally ill.



          Having someone sectioned under the 1983 Mental Health Act is not something that the ordinary person can simply "have done". It is a serious matter. Sectioning under the MHA occurs, basically, when there is a possibility of an individual being a risk to themselves or others. Nothing in gremlyn's post has pointed to such a risk.



          I don't know how someone can judge from the original post that gremlyn's neighbour needs sectioning for their "own good" or indeed why "she needs treatment".



          I can fully empathise with gremlyn and their neighbour problem but based on the information provided so far, there is nothing to indicate that their neighbour needs sectioning or, indeed, that they are mentally ill.



          I can't comment about people I don't know as I know nothing about them. It's very difficult to make suggestions about what people are like or offer advice in how to deal with them if you don't know the full story about them.



          Let's keep this topic about gremlyn and the saga of their fence, please.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Neighboured@Sep 4 2003, 9:35 PM

            Sounds like she is mentally ill. Have her sectioned.



            No, I am not joking. It is for her own good. She needs treatment.
            Hi Neighboured,



            I understand you may be offering genuine help here, but "who" needs to have her sectioned?



            Sectioning isn't something which is performed willy nilly by members of the public or at their request. This is something that seems to come up time and time again on the forum. As Holly has said it is in fact a complex process.



            I understand you may have some experience in an unrelated case, but every person is different. Just because a certain action may have been taken in the past with an individual doesn't mean it's applicable to someone else.



            I made a similar post on this only recently, here it is:



            If you have concerns for your neighbours mental health, you should contact your local authority social services team and give them information; the decision is then theirs whether to act on your info or not. Contact the police too if there is any element of criminal/illegal behaviour/actions.



            Sectioning (Under Section 3 for example - Admission for Treatment) an individual under the 1983 Mental Health Act is not as simple a process as would first appear. It is rightly a strict and detailed process, as any process should be when you are potentially seeking to take away someone's liberty and freedom. It is not up to members of the community to make this decision and rightly so.



            Very basically, a Section 3 requires a proper application which is made on two medical recommendations; an Approved Social Worker (ASW) must be involved in the decision. Under section 114 of the Mental Health Act 1983, LA's must have a number of ASW's, yours will have so too.



            Alongside an ASW, the RMO (Responsible Medical Officer) - see section 34 can also be involved, and needs to have the authority to do so (e.g. Psychiatrist) - not all professionals are registered and have this authority just by virtue of their professional position. Second opinions by an appointed doctor are also within this process. If the 'nearest relative' objects then Section 3 cannot be upheld under normal circumstances.



            Your LA and a ASW could advise further.



            It is not up to the 'community' to judge a person's mental health. If you have concerns pass them over and make a referral to your local authority and let them take it from there.



            If a person is at severe risk of harm from themselves or to others in the community there are other emergency procedures that can be used - for example, Section 5 (2) gives power to a registered medical practitioner to detain a person for up to 32 hours for assessment (this is most often used though where a person is already in a hospital based setting, say informally). Under Section 5 (4) a Registered Nurse can also hold a person for up to 6 hours with this specific 'holding power'. This kind of power shouldn't be used carelessly though, the time periods should be used to see further assessment and approval from other professionals, e.g. the ASW.



            Obviously if someone who has a mental health problem is presenting a criminal risk to the community or involved in criminal activities, then the police, as normal, must be contacted.


            If that wasn't in place, I could claim I think you're mentally ill from your post and you should be sectioned? Come on.......we're dealing with issues around people's freedom and LIBERTY here......should I be able to request your's is taken away and you are admitted for treatment under the Mental Health Act, because I think so?

            Comment


            • #7
              Ditto, I'm afraid.



              And I hope we can, in all topic areas, refrain from making wild guesses about someone's mental health/psychological status, and what should be done about it, just because we see what we consider to be inconsiderate/selfish/arrogant/or even dangerous behaviour. I think Holly and Matthew may have cleared up a few points here.



              I have said it before, and I will say it again for everyone.....because someone is an nfh DOES NOT indicate they have mental health problems, and by no means are people with mental health problems, by definition, nfh.



              Thanks everyone.



              Little rant over!



              Sapph

              Comment


              • #8
                Perhaps I should have made my position clear. I based my remarks on personal experience. I Did know -very well, as it happened- an elderly lady who acted in exactly the same way. Damaging fences, pulling up plants, "accidentally" allowing walls to fall, etc., etc.



                Eventually she was sectioned and given the treatment that she needed. And yes it was a neighbour/friend who organised this, by calling her doctor. Who had been warned by her family and friends that she was desperstely ill and getting worse. But the Doctor chose to ignore the family.



                The doctor made a rather silly statement: "I did not know she was as bad as this." To which her neighbour/friend snapped: "Well, it isn't for want of you being told how ill she was!"



                The Doctor went red and said nothing.



                I would, therefore contend that my remarks were (as they were based on someone who was, through no fault of their own, a NFH) germaine and, thus, not off topic.



                And gremlyn did say: [quote]She's finally lost the plot completely!![quote] which I took to mean was behaving a a way that was indicitive of some worsening of the problem.



                If you have not lived next to, or near, a person who acts in these bizarre ways, you really can't understand how things are for them and their neighoburs. :sad:



                If

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think what you have just given us is termed 'anecdotal evidence'. Just because it applied to somebody you knew does not really necessarily mean it will apply to somebody else, even if the case sounds similar.



                  I think it is not only unwise, but could be dangerous to make sweeping statements about somebody whom you suspect could be mentally ill and give out advice on that premise.



                  Ok, we all, well most of us, make comments about nutcases or describe somebody as not having the full shilling etc, usually because we are frustrated at their behaviour but we are not trained to diagnose mental problems and certainly shouldn't be diagnosing over the internet with only a smattering of facts.



                  Anyway, that's my tupennethworth.



                  Misty
                  "Almost anything you do will seem insignificant, but it is very important that you do it. You must be the change that you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm afraid I can only reiterate my previous post! I'm quite sure that there ARE people who do odd things that affect their neighbours whilst experiencing a psychotic episode. But, again, whilst much nfh behaviour may seem very irrational, it cannot be assumed that that means they have MH problems! And diagnosing on this forum, without full information/the qualification to diagnose, does not seem appropriate to me.



                    If anyone is concerned for someone's safety or well-being or that someone could be a danger to others, and fears they are suffering from mental health problems, then, conscience may dictate talking to Community Mental Health Services or Social Services emergency out-of-hours duty team if they feel it is urgent.



                    I think we need to return to the point of this thread, which is regarding Gremlyn's frustration and legal action regarding his neighbour's behaviour in a boundary issue.



                    Good luck with the injunction, Gremlyn

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think what you have just given us is termed 'anecdotal evidence'. Just because it applied to somebody you knew does not really necessarily mean it will apply to somebody else, even if the case sounds similar.


                      But if that arguement is, for the intents and purposes of this board, to be considered valid, then it would tend to deny the validity of each and every post about our neighbours from hell.



                      For are not all of our posts in that sense, anecdotal? And therefore adding emphasis to the fact that all of us here are very much to be considered as being alone in our misery?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Neighboured@Sep 6 2003, 6:38 PM

                        But if that arguement is, for the intents and purposes of this board, to be considered valid, then it would tend to deny the validity of each and every post about our neighbours from hell.



                        For are not all of our posts in that sense, anecdotal? And therefore adding emphasis to the fact that all of us here are very much to be considered as being alone in our misery?


                        Which is why we 'build up' as much detail and ask questions wherever possible to get an insight into the bigger picture of a NFH problem Neighboured. What's being said here, is that you may have 'jumped the gun' slightly.



                        Rather than assume, the emphasis is on gathering and 'collating' the data and information that is relevant, factual and appropriate to each person's NFH situation. In some senses, we all act as 'detectives' here to gather and delve for that further information and clarification where needed.



                        As you are not the OP (Original Poster) in this thread, gremlyn is - only they can give their own personal interpretation and further information/details which may be connected with their Neighbour's possible mental health. We all base our responses here on the information given in good faith - none of us claim to be experts, but most of us do tend to try and not make sweeping generalisations and assumptions based on guess work, hearsay or potential/possible scenarios.



                        If we did, we'd never get to the real root of the matter, would we?



                        We don't claim to always get it right and of course there is always an element of personal interpretation of the written word (you yourself will undoubtedly have an in-depth knowledge of that) by members who are describing their NFH problem and how it affects them (e.g. not everything affects different people in the same way as we all know).



                        Even in the fullest midsts of information that we have had from any member, we are of course still acting on our best instincts, interpretation and personal insights/experience with different NFH situations. The responses members get often regularly cover many different possibilities and scenarios of possible action - this is by far the best way often as members can then choose what they think is suitable and most appropriate to use with their NFH situation.



                        There is no definite 'diagnosis' of any one given situation unless we actually witness it ourselves, physically and personally and as such that will be a personal interpretation. All we can do is 'signpost' people to the possibilities and advise members in the best way we can.



                        If you were suggesting and hypothetically theorising that a particular person may have mental health difficulties, then you need to be clear in saying that. If you were saying they do have mental health problems then you must appreciate that you will be challenged on what is an unfounded opinion based on little facts and assumption at this stage.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          please stick to the topic



                          any more not on topic posts will be deleted!



                          from anyone!!!!!!!



                          this is Gremlyns thread about a fence!



                          I think everyone seems to have put views across who wanted to now.



                          thank you





                          Beth

                          Moderating team

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi Gremlyn



                            I hope that it does not take too long for you to get an application for an injunction in - is there not a way of getting an interim sort of one in the meantime or else this NFH could cause even more mayhem to your property and then try and claim it as hers.



                            I'd be worried that some fool might actually believe her tales, the more she encroaches on you now, the more she's likely to try and claim??



                            I hope you get what I am trying to say as the law is painfully pernickitty and it is very frustrating actually proving what is rightfully yours, believe me!!! :sad:



                            Best of luck,



                            Mazza

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Does your neighbour have a relation you can talk to about her behaviour? Someone who could say: "Now then, XXXX, this behaviour just isn't nice." Perhaps they could help establish exactly what is going on?

                              Comment

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