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  • Restraining order on nuisance neighbour

    Read the story online, here.

  • #2
    Hmm, would Joe Bloggs have managed to get the Order? I wonder.

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    • #3
      Hmm, would Joe Bloggs have managed to get the Order? I wonder.[/b]


      Well, maybe, eventually. But not before an ASBO had been broken 17 times!



      Misty
      "Almost anything you do will seem insignificant, but it is very important that you do it. You must be the change that you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

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      • #4
        I doubt very much if Joe Bloggs could have got an ASBO on the offender by now. In that neck of the woods the crim justice system folk tend to have a leaning towards being more 'self' than 'public' serving.



        Some people really do need help, though. I hope the rehabilition order helps that offender. He can't always have been like that and must have serious mental health problems. Psychiatric help would be more of an answer for him, and his poor neighbours, than a criminal record.



        Better if the Director of Social Services were to move in next door.

        Comment


        • #5
          Like Madhatter, Hill has a serious and ongoing mental condition which impedes his normal and rational thought process.



          Unfortunately, this is now called CARE IN THE COMMUNITY. Many years ago these poeple would be housed in institutions for their own safety and that of the public.



          Now that these places are defunct - it is the public that has to put up with their weird and wonderful behaviour in whatever form that may take.



          These institutions need to be reinstated and quickly.

          Comment


          • #6
            CARE IN THE COMMUNITY



            should be called



            DON't CARE IN THE COMMUNITY



            Wasn't this a concept of a political party which went too far in its ideals (notably in this subject) and lost the supprt of it's own followers. That party got voted out by people who wanted change, as I recall.



            So where are the assylums now? Joe Bloggs or even senior police folk can't be expected to deal with people who need specialist, trained, help. It isn't fair on the afflicted 'offender', nor on the community.



            CARE IN THE COMMUNITY doesn't work. Proof of that is there every time you see or hear a disturbance caused by someone who should be in a safe place of care. These poor individuals are often as terrified as they are terrifying.



            Grrrrrr, sorry to rant, but the dismantling of institutions which were set up for the common good is something that gets me goat.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Scooby@May 23 2003, 8:30 PM

              Like Madhatter, Hill has a serious and ongoing mental condition which impedes his normal and rational thought process.



              Unfortunately, this is now called CARE IN THE COMMUNITY.* Many years ago these poeple would be housed in institutions for their own safety and that of the public.
              Sorry Scooby, but there is no evidence of that at all in the News item.



              Admittedly it does mention "abnormal behaviour", but this isn't attributed to Mental Health problems, this behaviour could just have well been caused by alcohol and drunken behaviour alone. It does mention a previous marriage though and I would be interested to see if the problems may have stemmed from his marriage breakdown.



              I think there's a real danger of generally stereotyping people with mental health problems (if indeed this individual has any) - they are individuals (human beings - like you and me) with different needs and who require differing amounts of support from society and in some cases professionally-based services.



              Many years ago these poeple would be housed in institutions for their own safety and that of the public.[/b]
              You'll be sending 'them' back to the "workhouses" next Scooby! I don't think you realise how prejudiced that sounds? I'm sure it wasn't intentional though?



              I think we need to look beyond the surface sometimes. The individual in this story (Mark Hill) may have a learning disability or a medically based disability (e.g. Munchausens) for all we know. Assumptions in society are one of the biggest causes of prejudice and oppressive behaviour.



              Now that these places are defunct - it is the public that has to put up with their weird and wonderful behaviour in whatever form that may take.



              These institutions need to be reinstated and quickly.[/b]


              What places? Are you suggesting we bring back white padded cells, the workhouses and the big psychiatric hospitals that were primarily closed due to the lack or resources, the undignified treatment of their users, the unprofessional actions (and in some cases inhumane practices) of the staff?



              So, are we 'better' than "them"?



              I'm not saying Care in the Community is perfect (if indeed it is relevant here) and it certainly isn't. It's a hailback from a past government which needs a lot of re-examination and updating to make it work more successfully within today's times. What it does promote though is a greater awareness and care for your fellow human being. There are clearly cases where individuals have been left to manage themselves in the community where they have needed more professional support, granted and it's an area that in my opinion needs to be examined very carefully.

              Comment


              • #8
                I couldn't agree more Homer. Most people who suffer mental health problems are more of a danger to themselves than to others. Unfortunately there have been a few notable exceptions, but it is those that get the publicity. The upshot is that anybody with a mental health problem is seen as a danger to others, which is just not true.



                There should be help for those who need it, and those that need it but refuse it and do present as a danger should be removed to a place of safety. Of course, it's easy to say that but it's getting all the infrastructure in place and the will to use it that is sadly lacking.



                In the past psychiatry was abused and people who were not mentally ill were incarcerated for the silliest of reasons. eg, unwed mothers and mental hospitals were sometimes used to keep 'embarassments to society' out of the way. What we need is to find a happy medium. Will we get it? Your guess is as good as mine



                Misty
                "Almost anything you do will seem insignificant, but it is very important that you do it. You must be the change that you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Scooby@May 23 2003, 8:30 PM

                  Unfortunately, this is now called CARE IN THE COMMUNITY.* Many years ago these poeple would be housed in institutions for their own safety and that of the public.



                  Now that these places are defunct - it is the public that has to put up with their weird and wonderful behaviour in whatever form that may take.
                  really scooby?



                  would you like to be "put" somewhere for your own protection?



                  what if you had been pregnant out of wedlock.....would you like to put somewhere like that.....then in 50 years time be so institutionalised that you would never be able to live *normally*??



                  I take great offence at your comments as you should know by now I work in one of these "places" as you put it.



                  I am sorry if this sounds harsh but do you have any real idea of the predujices people with disabilities of varying sorts have to face on a day to day basis??



                  These institutions need to be reinstated and quickly.[/b]


                  I take it this a personal opinion and not a professional one.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Scooby@May 23 2003, 8:30 PM

                    CARE IN THE COMMUNITY.* Many years ago these poeple would be housed in institutions for their own safety and that of the public.
                    There is an issue (not necessarily with the news topic) which needs to be raised after these recent posts.



                    We used to have a Care in the Community policy in this country. People have a right to feel that it failed them. They were (rightly or wrongly) promised things which never materialised.



                    Under this, many people were institutionalised who didn't need to be, many were in care as that was all they knew and many fell outside the care completely.



                    The issue at the moment, in my opinion, is that Care in the Community never worked. There is now something called "Supporting People" which aims to fund agencies to support vulnerable people in their own tenancies/properties.



                    People who are in need or care and support should be given it at the point of need, appropriate care at this stage would really resolve a lot of problems doen the line. However, it very rarely happens.



                    You need to encourage your LA to hold multi-agency meetings between Supporting People/ Mental Health and Housing Teams. LA's can do it and should do it. It is an effective way of working.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by hollygolightly@May 26 2003, 4:14 AM

                      People who are in need or care and support should be given it at the point of need, appropriate care at this stage would really resolve a lot of problems doen the line. However, it very rarely happens.
                      Excellent point Holly. Its the need for care packages and effective, personally tailored support before situations and a person's well being and lifestyle degenerates.



                      Sadly it doesn't happen in a lot of cases, due to lack of resources, professional apathy, lack of multi-disciplinary team co-operation and co-ordination, etc, etc.......

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Sadly it doesn't happen in a lot of cases, due to lack of resources, professional apathy, lack of multi-disciplinary team co-operation and co-ordination, etc, etc.......[/b]


                        It's all very well thinking out these strategies but implementing them in what appears to be slip shod ways seems make things worse rather than better. Why can't the powers that be ensure there is sufficient funding, co-operation and co-ordination before they start experimenting with peoples' lives?



                        Some people are more concerned with the powers they wield and the status their position carries than with the people who are in dire need of help.



                        Sorry, I was ranting, wasn't I? I'll stop now



                        Misty
                        "Almost anything you do will seem insignificant, but it is very important that you do it. You must be the change that you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Maybe that Local Government is primarily funded by Central Government Misty and of course your Council Tax



                          Education and Social Services are typically the largest funded areas of Local Council's....but it's obvious in a lot of cases this doesn't solve the lack of resources problem (both human and financial resources). Maybe it's not enough resources or they are mis-managed by the Directors at the highest levels?

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                          • #14
                            This has spawned a debate which has quite enlightened my views and led to me reconsidering ideas about 'bringing back the assylums'. A system not without it's excesses. I still believe their closure was more about money and the term 'care in the community' was cynical spin.



                            When people are clearly 'not with us', and may be ranting and scaring people, then I do believe that some sort of brief stay in a safe place, [/B]with a view to rehabilitation[B] is best for them and society. How much help do the afflicted get in the bus station/ street/ park?



                            I think we agree that some middle ground is needed.



                            Back to the topic. Wasn't that P.A. chairman lucky to get his word believed? Some of us get tape-recorded evidence ignored. Perhaps we have a point for debate here. All of a sudden the enforcers of our criminal justice system aren't sorrowfully shaking their heads and saying "our hands are tied". Anyone know why this might be?

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