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Boy From Hell

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  • Boy From Hell

    Hello everyone. Time to give you the rundown on what's been happening. I am married to Ann and we have a boy and a girl who are 8 years old (twins). There are five or six other kids in our street around the same age. From they were 3 or 4 all of them played together with no problems. However one of the other kids, a boy one year older than ours who lives almost opposite and whom I shall call X, was always a worry to us. Although immature in his ways, he came across as knowing a little more about life than one would have expected of a child so young if you know what I mean. For example I caught him once with his top and trousers off on top of our 4 year old daughter on the sofa trying to kiss her on the mouth. OK he was just a kid, and he said he was "wrestling", but we just had a bad feeling about it you know? Indeed after the present trouble started our two informed us that when they used to go into X’s house he had on occasions removed all of his clothes and asked them to get into his parents’ bed to have s** with him - he even specified "gay s**" in our son's case. On asking for more info, we were horrified to hear them describe his physical condition on these occasions (as this is a family-friendly site I cannot say more, but I think you will get the gist of it). Remember this was a 5 year old and our kids were only 4. If only they had told us at the time. Our kids thought this was all hilarious of course. We didn’t, as you can imagine.

    Just over a year ago our kids started to report to us that X, then 6 or 7, was using dirty talk in the street. Not just bad language you understand, but pure filth. For example he was walking up to teenage girls who were passing by and propositioning them in the most explicit way you could imagine. Of course our kids wanted to know “Why would you want to do that?” and “What does that do?” and so on. That was it. They were banned from being anywhere near X from that day on. Our kids understood perfectly well the reason with little more having to be said (thank the Lord). In fact they were both quite upset by what they had been hearing, and were happy to stop seeing him and come into the house when he was around.

    Given what we now know, ie that every other child in the street - and indeed further afield - had simultaneously been banned from playing with X for similar reasons, it is rather amazing that it took his parents 3 weeks to realise that there was something wrong. When they did, the mother came to our door and demanded an explanation. I told her in the quietest and most diplomatic and gentle manner I could muster (I was shaking uncontrollably and could hardly get a word out of my mouth to be honest about it) that it was because of his language etc, and that my wife and I were simply not prepared to have to start explaining such things, especially in such vivid detail, to our 6 year olds. I was prepared for her to be shocked and upset as any good parent would be (that's why I was shaking - I could have died rather than have to say it), but what I wasn’t prepared for was the torrent of verbal abuse, rantings and ravings which she aimed at me both at our front door and then from the other side of the street as she made her way home. She was screaming at the top of her voice, and I have never seen such a look of hate on a person’s face either before or since. Of course the abuse was mostly aimed at our kids - it was them that were the problem and needed sorting out – you know the sort of thing I am sure. I said nothing and quietly closed the door.

    After that Ann got it. Evil looks, comments made behind her back etc, until one day she couldn’t stick it any more and asked Mrs X as she passed our gate, glaring at Ann in her usual manner, could we not get together and sort something out for the childrens’ sake – we would have been more than prepared to let them play together again so long as the inappropriate talk stopped. The torrent of abuse was repeated for the whole neighbourhood to hear, mostly aimed at me this time. Apparently all this was my fault, although no explanation as to why this was the case was forthcoming. Ann came into the house in a terrible state. I waited for an hour or so until everyone had had a chance to calm down a bit, and made the 30 second journey to their front door (seemed like minutes) to repeat my wife’s plea for us to get together and sort things out. Mr X opened the door, informed me that X had “never used bad language in his life” and that if I didn’t take myself home “NOW” he would pull my throat out. As he is about 6 feet tall and built like a sumo wrestler, and I am (nearly) 5 feet 6 in my highest shoes, needless to say I retreated immediately.

    However the most distressing thing about this episode was not the threat or the verbal abuse. Instead it was the fact that Mr X appeared to have told X all about it – for the next couple of weeks our son got taunted with “My Dad’s going to kick the c*** out of your Dad” and such like. Very distressing for our son, and me into the bargain

    Anyway that was it for a while. We just all ignored each other and that was that. Our kids had their other chums, X found new chums and everything seemed fine. Then X started to lose his new chums one by one - I wonder why. Actually the mother of his new “best friend” at that time works with Ann and one day asked her if we knew X. “Yes” Ann said. “Are the parents approachable?” she asked. “Oh dear” thought Ann. It turned out she had been undressing her boy for a bath and discovered he was black and blue from X hitting him that day. They later found he had a broken tooth and bruising to the side of his head as well. X got off with it of course. X’s parents claimed to have seen the whole thing and the two boys had simply fallen out and been fighting. “Boys will be boys” they said. Ann was asking her friend just today if things were OK and she told her that her son is now coming home from school every day with new bruises, torn clothes, ripped books etc, all down to X. Unfortunately she seems reluctant to approach the school as she feels she has no “proof”. It's just ridiculous.

    Anyway gradually X started hanging about near our ones and their friends again when they were out playing, calling them filthy names and pushing them around etc although the vast majority of the abuse was aimed at our two. Our advice to the kids was to ignore him as much as possible, and if things got bad to come into the house until he got bored and went away. That worked for a while. However they have had to put up with his constant abuse for about three months now. Last week it got to the point where our kids and their friends, although still to a lesser extent (they are nearly all girls and apparently X fancies most of them - dear help them) were being tortured on a daily basis, and our whole family was feeling the strain.

    Last Thursday I cracked. Our boy had come to tell me for the umpteenth time that week that X was bullying him again. This time he had been hitting him with a plastic bottle, throwing the bottle and other missiles at him, pushing him off his bike, calling him the usual filthy names (again mostly s**ual in nature) and so on. Nothing new there. This time I told him to just go back and ignore X as best he could. I followed our son a few minutes later, and caught X red-handed antagonising him and throwing a football into his face. If only I had a camcorder. I called X over, and gently told him that if he didn’t stop hitting and harassing our kids that I would have no option but to call the police. He simply said “Okay”, and I left thinking that would be the end of it.

    Not so. Half an hour later our front door nearly came in. It was Mr X who was berserk with rage. Who was I to say ANYTHING to X – if I didn’t have the b***s to come to him (which I didn’t of course after the last attempt) then I wasn’t to speak to X either. And what’s more if I ever said anything to him again then it wouldn’t be X we were calling the police for it would be him as he would kick Ann and I up and down the f***ing road. At that I closed the door, but he then stood at our lounge window waving his fist and screaming that he was going to kill the two of us. He repeated this threat, amongst others, at the top of his voice several times before eventually leaving. But again the worst thing was not the abuse, but the fact that he had brought X over to witness this. And he said it all in full hearing of our own children too

    I phoned the police. Waste of time. They offered to go and speak to them but made it clear that they would simply be saying that there was obviously a problem between the two families which needed sorted. They couldn’t take sides, which is fair enough, but aren’t there laws about harassment, bullying and threatening to kill people? The policeman didn’t seem to know (or care). Anyway he said in his experience him going to talk to the X family was very likely to make the situation worse, so he advised us to do nothing. “Just keep the kids in the house when X is around” he said. “Pretty hard” I said “as he lives across the road and swoops as soon as our kids are out the gate”. “This sort of thing is really best sorted out between the kids” he said. I asked “Are you saying they should hit X back?” “They are quite entitled to do so.” was the reply. Some solution that is eh!

    So now we are all at our wits end – X is now going to think he can do whatever he wants and if anyone says anything to him his Dad will sort them out for him. We obviously can’t say anything to the parents. And the police? Well, I just don’t know what the point is any more. The other 'problem' is that, as yet anyhow, X has been careful not to abuse our kids in school (which is a good thing of course as that might put them off going), so we feel there is no scope to seek help there either. We are just waiting now for the preverbial **** to hit the fan. And the other terrible thing is the guilt which Ann and I are feeling. Was it wrong to ban the kids from playing with him? Could we have done it in a better way? Should I not have warned X off the other night? What have we done wrong? I can't think straight any more and I feel sick to my stomach.

    Anyway enough of that. In my intro which I posted in the “NFH in Britain” forum I said our story would be short. Please accept my apologies as it has turned out to be quite the opposite. Hope I don’t get banned Thanks for taking the time to read this, and thanks to all of you for such a great forum.


    Michael, Ann and the Gruesome Twosome

  • #2

    I was horrified to hear this story, it sounds as though this family are making your life hell.

    You must NOT feel guilty about withdrawing your children from his company. X sounds a little deranged, and more than a little well-educated about "adult" matters. For your kids safety, you had to do this.

    X's violence seems to be a pattern well-repeated by learning from his parents. I'm not a parent, but others on this forum are, and they can offer that side of the opinion. You've tried reasoning, attempted discussion, even tentatively suggested mediation, but these people are lowlife, if it were my kid, I would be absolutely horrified about X's behaviour and would arrange for him to see a professional psychologist.

    I think there is ASBO protection (if X is 10 or over), but not sure about the conditions here, think Holly or Matthew should know. For the adults (his father sounds absolutely priceless) there is the Protection from Harrassment Act, but I think all of these incidents need to be logged over a period of time to build a case.

    Just for a comparison, my NFH has two boys, aged 10 and 7. The 10-year old, no problem, nice lad, a bit boisterous, but pleasant, amiable and ok. The 7-year old, well, no other kids will play with him, he is violent, talks about subjects such as "sh*gging" and talks to himself when playing in the street on his own. Even as an adult, my mind boggles that his parents cannot see this, but his father is an adult version of him

    Michael, your kids well-being comes first, and usually first instincts are correct - you have done the right thing so far, so don't panic that you over-reacted. Let us have some more details - are you owners, rented or HA etc., same for your neighbours, what are your other neighbours doing about this, what do the school think etc.

    Come back and keep us abreast of things.



    • #3
      several things really...

      first oh my....what a horrible child!!

      but a child that needs help.....I really would approach the school and explain you rconcerns over the violence and sexual conatations.

      it might seem that other parents are waiting for someone to make the first move.....the kid needs proffessional help. and the school can provide this.

      even if you write to the school, and perhaps you will be able to encourage others to complain about the bulling...

      the thing to make clear to the school is that this child needs help, not punishing, although maybe a little bit!!....if this is handled the wrong way you may find that young x is expelled and on your doorstep 24/7!

      thats why you have to make it clear what you think he needs.

      the other thing is big time he is carrying on, ring the police straight away, so they can hear him over the phone...

      and get Ann to do it!!

      woman on phone to police big screaming man outside, they are more likley to turn up, even if youi have to fib a bit and say female alone.

      it is important to say on these calls how scarred you are and how you fear for your saftey......remember these calls are recorded, and the police hace to act on certain words.

      and you are doing the right thing in my eyes by trying to stop your children from having contact with him, children learn from other children and it would be dreadful to see your children picking up on his nasty habits.

      I would love to answer more but I am running late again for my day.

      good luck


      • #4
        Hi Michael and welcome

        Crikey! . A nasty situation to be in, it must be awful for all of you.

        Like Beth says, this X is in need of help. There seems to be more to this than meets the eye: you never know what goes on behind closed doors. I would write to the school about his behaviour and the particular aspects of it that concern you.

        Isn't it great when the Police fob you off? It's a domestic; neighbour dispute; civil matter; a child; blah, blah, blah. Have they actually listened to anything you said?

        If Big X has made threats, which he has, then you need to pursue the Police avenue again, but when you do, tell them that you want them to deal with this matter under the Protection from Harassment Act (PHA). If you visit the main website and go to the legislation section, you will find more information about the PHA there. Read up on it, don't let the Police fob you off again! Next time you are threatened by Big X ring the Police straight away.

        It may also be worthwhile contacting your local Beat Bobby and speaking to them about your concerns for little X and what has been happening over the years. I don't know whether an ASBO (anti-social behaviour order) would be appropriate in this case, but it certainly wouldn't cause any harm mentioning it in any discussions with the Police.

        Like gordy said, it can help sometimes to get a clearer picture about you story knowing what type of housing you and nfh are in: owners, renting (private, Council, Housing Association)?

        If you haven't started making notes of everything, you need to start doing so straight away. I know it can be very boring and time consuming, but you must. The Police want evidence and without it they can usually do nothing. On the main website, under Resources, you will find a blank sheet to start recording incidents. If you can get your hands on a dictaphone, then that is something else you could use to record the threats that Big X has been making.

        Welcome again to the Forum and good luck. Above all, make sure that you keep your family safe from the nfh.


        • #5
          Michael, to say I'm horrified would be putting it mildly X and his parents are putting your children and the children of others at risk.

          X in your story sounds a lot like a boy who lived near me. In fact he is now in his 20's and still lives here. He had the most disgusting mouth on him and some of the things he said and did, well they don't bear repeating. When he was sixteen or seventeen it was discovered that he had been sexually abusing three young children. We were shocked but not surprised! He got three years probation and we didn't see him around much after that. Until that is his probationary period was over. Then he came back with a vengeance. He was classed, at that time, as educationally subnormal. But he knew exactly what he was doing. He had a couple of cousins, around the same age who were also out of control.

          I don't want to say much more in a public forum. But I really think you should go back to the police, tell them exactly what is going on and tell them you fear for the safety of your children.

          X needs help and so do his parents. We can only guess what is going on in his home. We might be wrong so it is up to the 'professionals' to sort him out. Maybe you could, as Beth says, contact the school and see if they can be of any help. Although from what you've told us I cannot believe that the school is not aware of his problems. Or you could phone the NSPCC and ask them for advice. I seem to recall when I called them I told them I didn't want to give my name and they advised me to contact local Social Services and said they would contact them as well.

          Good luck, your children shouldn't have to take this offensive bullying from X and his family.

          "Almost anything you do will seem insignificant, but it is very important that you do it. You must be the change that you wish to see in the world." Gandhi


          • #6
            Michael welcome, our stories have similarities and the feelings you describe are all too familiar. Keep us posted and we can swap notes as things develop. My own story is in a bit of a lull at the moment due to some excellent assertive avoidance techniques by the kids (don't look when you see them, but keep on doing whatever you're doing with a purpose. Don't respond, don't give them the satisfaction). Of course if you're being sought out and aggressively confronted there's not much you can do! Stay strong and keep up the good fight for the gentle people.


            • #7
              NSPCC help line :

              0808 800 5000


              [email protected]

              hope you get some advice, I know little x has caused you a lot of bother but I am know quite worried about him.


              • #8
                Thanks all for your extremely supportive and helpful replies to date. We are starting to feel better already. And yes, its pretty clear where X is getting his aggressive behaviour from, although I will say more about this in a moment. First a little more info as requested.

                Our street, a sort of cul-de sac, is all private housing. Running off our street is a small development which would have been 100 per cent council accomodation at one time, but I think nearly all the properties have now been purchased by residents. It is really nice, well kept, plenty of green grass and open space for the children to play. And as far as I know there are few problems. Most of the residents of our own street are older than us, with a large proportion having grown up children and/or retired, and everybody pretty much keeps themselves to themselves.

                On the positive action front I have started a log, and Ann and I are going to discuss the possibility of getting together with other parents. Ann's work colleague who's son is being bullied would be the obvious starting point and at least this would give us a way in as far as the school is concerned. For some reason she seems very reluctant to do anything at the moment. Perhaps she and her husband feel as intimidated by Mr X as we do . Will let you know how we get on.

                Now the really difficult bit, X himself. Sorry if I may have given the impression that we have not been concerned about him. I was simply telling our story from our point of view, but we have realised for some time that he must be a very unhappy child for whatever reason to behave the way he does. We had thought that his somewhat immature nature (despite the adult talk) and the fact that he has a slight speech impedament may be possible reasons why he might feel inadequate and seek attention. But it was only recently, when we started to put down the sequence of events that has brought us to where we are, that we noticed the common thread, ie the "s**" stuff.

                As I said the most disturbing aspect of this was only brought to light a short time ago when we sat our kids down for a chat about what X had been up to. It was then we started to remember other little things and began to see that perhaps X's problems go deeper than we had thought. One mother we know quite well banned him a few months prior to us as not only was he urinating on her property, but he was telling her five year old son things like he had been having sex with his teacher for example. Whether X knew what he is saying we simply don't know. Perhaps he had simply been picking it up from his older brother (should have mentioned that - he is about eight years older than X, no other siblings) as he gleaned bits and pieces in school etc as we all did at one time or another. But the fact that X was stripping off, was obviously excited and asking other children to get into his parents' bed makes me feel he has either seen or experienced these things first hand.

                Please be assured that I have already discussed this aspect of the problem with our local Parents Advice Centre, and they put us in touch with the NSPCC - thanks Mistyeyeddreamer and Beth. You may be interested that you can indeed contact them anonymously where you are worried about a child. They don't rush off to investigate or anything like that, but flag up the child's details so that if anyone else should mention the same name in the future the alarm bells will ring even louder, and so on, until they feel there is good reason to act.

                Well my head is done in now so I will shut up. Thanks again for your great support. Hope to speak to you again soon.


                • #9
                  Stay strong and keep up the good fight for the gentle people.[/b]
                  Pure poetry, Harrassed.

                  Hi Michael,

                  It makes me so mad that you have to put up with that filth and no one will help if they can get away with it. The only advice that I can give you is if you phone the police always ask for an incident number and then they have to log the call and you have evidence that will mount up over time.

                  There are some big-hearted people on this forum that I would trust my life with even though I have never met them, because adversity has made them stronger albeit unwarranted and unwanted and you will be stronger for your stance against the trash in our society who would drag us all down to their level given half a chance.

                  Even though I am 56 I don’t take c**p from anyone because I have been doing martial arts for 20 or so years now, and I tell these low-life sc*m that I can hurt them in places they don’t even know they have and that usually concentrates their mind because the one thing they can’t take a chance on is an “old” guy giving them a smacking. So all that I usually get is bluff and bluster and they shuffle off to their stinking pits promising to sort me out big time one day, well I’m still waiting. The best part is I wouldn’t hurt a fly if I could get away with it but they don’t know that, but studying the martial arts actually stops me from getting into trouble by allowing me to talk my way out of scrapes time after time.

                  Anyway keep us posted Michael, and try not to let them gring you down.

                  Don't look a grizzly bear in the eye when you're eating fish 'n' chips.


                  • #10
                    You've done nothing wrong. You have disturbingly unpleasant neighbours. It happens to the best of us.

                    The police ought to be helping you. The Social Services might. You'll need to keep a diary, possibly have some recorded evidence ( a dictaphone could be useful, and they are quite cheap).

                    From your post I don't think mediation would be much use, unless an agreement honoured by both parties not to interfere with eachother is going to be the outcome.

                    How awful this must be for you and your family. Hope this can be resolved soon.