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  • Can take no more

    HI i am so glad i found this site. My story starts sep97 .After returning home from a short break we arrived home to find new neighbours had moved in. within 2 months of them moving in they had become the NFH, music constantly from mid morning until early hours almost every night of the week. We started off by going round and politly asking the NFH to turn down the music and for the first six months they did so.Then the NFH started what i can only describe as there own youthclub with different groups of youths going into and out of the house at all times of day and night , they then started there own car repairs in the front garden so not only did we have the music to listen to we were subjected to listening to cars being reeved up for hours on end.this all quietened down for a couple of months when the NFH split up, then a new group of friends come on the scene music not only being played loudly all day and night but at 5am one sunday morning when my husband was leaving for work he knocked on the NFH door to ask them to turn it down as i and children were trying to sleep,he was given the reply "why dont you get a life?". After this i contacted local council and was told to keep diary sheets this went on over a couple of years the council would warn the NFH that a complaint had been made and the NFH would keep the noise down for a couple of weeks.I would be lent a data box to record the noise(they werent playing music loud enough to get any evidence ) as soon as the data box was collected up went the volume,i did have a direct line phone number to call someone from the council out but each time they walked up garden path the music would be turned down again.this went on like this until 2001, so i gave up, tried to live with the music hoping one day they would move out .summer 2002 a caravan arrives in the NFH garden youths start coming and going from it all day. Parties being held there most nights i had stopped asking them to turn down the music and had reverted to just banging on the wall, sometimes it would be turned down on other occassions it would be turned up louder. December 2002 sat 12th to be exact music being played all day and all night at i can hear the NFH'S son shouting to her to turn the music down at i bang on the wall and shout shut the F*** up (i was tired). the NFH can then be heard telling her friends that i leave my baby crying (which i have never done) feeling extremly annoyed with the NFH i decide to keep out of her way incase i cant hold my temper with her any longer. On the monday i ask my daughter to ask the NFH'S daughter why she was telling lies about me.Friday 20th comes and when i pick up my children from school i am told that the NFH has phoned the school to let them know that i had told my kids to beat up hers, this is proved to be rubbish when the teachers ask one of my children and both of hers.They all said that they liked each other and that no one was being picked on. Well after saturday i was seeing i went straight round the NFH to ask what she was playing at. "Shes not IN" came the reply from one of her many visitors, so i asked him to tell her that "the b***h from next door wants to see her"( this is what i have heard myself being called on many occassions after a bang on the wall). later that evening the NFH gets out of a car with some of her friends i ask my husband to ask her what shes playing at she says she doesnt know what hes talking about tells him to p** off and slams door. I was just asking him what she said when the NFH and her friend come up my garden path, i was still with her and went out to ask what the hell she was playing at. The two of the them stood with there faces in mine and she asked me why i was shouting at her, im afraid at that point i lost my temper and slapped her across the face at this friend of NFH starts screaming in my face so i slap her too, she calls out the group of men that were in her house and a slanging match starts NFH tells me "you'd better watch your car" friend of NFH slaps my husband . on boxing day i get a visit from the local police force telling me i cant just hit my neighbour, i explained the situation and he left.all quietens down for a few weeks untill after christmas, then we hear arguments and people shouting in the NFH garden. determined not to get involved i stay indoors out of the way at 1am my husband goes out ready to leave for work and finds two of his tires slashed, i banged on the door two men were standing in her hallway ,after a couple of minutes she opens a top floor window and fully dressed she tells me "im in bed triyng to sleep" . again seeing red i asked her why she had slashed the tires she says nothing i tell her when i see her im gonna do more than slap her face for this. she replies with "whatever" i phoned the police while my husband arranged for someone to come and pick him up for work, the police never did come out about the tires being slashed. Then the next week i put up cctv cameras to keep an eye on our property within 3 weeks we had footage of the NFH smashing up a car in her garden with a baseball bat we phone the police she is questioned but nothing is done about it, on monday 7th april at 11.34 we hear loud banging again from the garden this time its the NFH's boyfriend smashing up yet another car, i didnt bother phoning the police this time. contacted council again to ask for a data box to be installed as the music over the last two weeks has become unbearable i get told, "as youve left it so long since making a complaint we have to start again, please keep diary sheets". i tell the lady at the council that i am going round in circles she informs me " we will let your neighbours know that a complaint has been made and then in a few weeks time we will lend you a data box" whats the point? i ask myself. today is sunday april 20th and music has been played all morning untill about 11.58 when a wpc knocks on my door and tells me i have to move my cctv camera. i explain that the NFH have slashed our tires and smashed up cars in their garden the WPC tells me i am not allowed to tape my neighbours and that what they do in there own garden is up to them, i tell her its criminal damage to smash cars up she tells me as it is on my neighbours property it is up to them to report any damage if they want to,i tell her i think its sick that the NFH can do what they like and that i cannot protect my property with a camera the WPC then tells me as long as i am not recording past my garden (sides or front) i can use my cameras, surely this cant be right and where do i go from here? p.s have tried to keep this as short as possible

  • #2
    Shocked to say the least here.

    I am just so surprised that you have been able to tolerate this for so long, I really, really am.

    First of all, did you get the name of this WPC ? Do you have the address for your Police Headquarters for your area ?

    What I think you seriously need to do is go right over her head and report the whole lot to Divisional Headquarters. Ask for the Complaints Department and tell them that despite all of your concerns and evidence that the police are not doing enough to help and assist you. You have been asked to move your camera despite the fact that this is trained onto your car and of all the damage that has occurred to it. You need to point out that this is a continual form of Anti Social Behaviour and you want to someone to help you deal with bringing about an order on them.

    I think now the time has come to make one hell of a stand.

    I don't personally have experience first hand of noise so to be fair I am not in a position to comment. This is more the terriotory of Matthew, Beth, Hollygolightly, Badger and Misty. Give them time and they will post info for you.

    What you have here is a clear case of Anti Social Behaviour.

    The following is an excert from our local Police's information leaflet :-

    If someone's anti-social behaviour has been causing you harassment, alarm, or distress, you can ask the police or local authority to apply to the magistrates court for an ASB Order to stop this happening.

    You may not need to to appear or be identified in court, because the court can ask to hear the evidence of a professional witness. This means that someone from the local authority can come out to see the behaviour for himself/herself and give evidence on your behalf. The Magistrates will decide if the grounds for an Order have been satisfied.

    An ASBO lasts at least two years. An offender who disobeys an Order can face a penalty of up to five years imprisonment.


    You really need to push for this. You have done just about everything you can and now the time has come for you to stand up and deal with these people. They know full well they are making your lives a misery and furthermore, they will continue to do it regardless.

    I can't comment on the fact that you slapped two people around the face thats not for me to sit here and judge, however, you must now be in total control and gets things moving.



    • #3

      I have just been informed that the reason why the WPC could have asked you to move the camera is because your NFH are stating that it infringes their Human Rights.

      Apparently, they have a right to privacy and are using the law on this point, however, that still does not stop you from recording what is going on providing you can do this 'covertly' !

      Yes I know, it's a real pain in the proverbial - but this is what you are up against I'm afraid and they are manipulating the law to get their own way.

      As has just bee whispered to me There is always more than one way to skin a cat !!!!


      • #4
        Hi at_my_wits_end and welcome to the board.

        What a horror story!!! These NFH can be cunning when it comes to their noise being monitored. I was told that if you've made complaints and then leave it for a while, six months I think was the stated time, then it is classed as a new complaint. Of course the person that told me that was talking about antisocial behaviour.

        When you say they are doing their own car repairs do you mean that it is only their own cars that they repair or are they doing 'jobs' for others? Because it might then be classed as a business and they would have probably contravened the law.

        Is it a private house or council property?

        You've done the right thing keeping a diary but have you reported the noise to the police?

        The thing about cctv cameras seems to be a fuzzy area. I read of a case similar to yours about a couple who were told it was illegal to have their cctv camera pointed anywhere but onto their own property. But we read of the police persuing cases using cctv camera footage. I suppose if the cctv camera is covering your property and at the same time shows up other properties it might be ok if it can be shown that it would be impossible to film your own property alone. I'm not sure about this, maybe some of the other members may be more au fait with the law regarding cctv.

        The police might be right about only your neighbours being able to complain about their own cars being damaged, but I would have thought that the noise created would be a public nuisance.

        It is unfortunate that you actually struck your NFH. We've been having a discussion on the boards about what might happen if 'you lose it'. Provocation doesn't seem to count for much in the law.

        You haven't mentioned any other neighbours. Are they affected by the antisocial behaviour of this family? If so would they be prepared to back you up in your complaints? The more people you can get to complain the better chance you have of getting something done about it. Also, if you feel you are not being treated fairly by the police, council etc, maybe you should approach your local MP. This family sound as if they might be good candidates for an antisocial behaviour order.

        Sorry I can't be more helpful but I'm sure some of the other members will have a lot more advice to share with you.

        "Almost anything you do will seem insignificant, but it is very important that you do it. You must be the change that you wish to see in the world." Gandhi


        • #5
          Hi AMWE

          Such a familair story, I am sorry you have to live next to such inconsiderate people.

          One hint....when the council tell you that you can have the recording box, wait till a few days before it is due to you and then ring them up and tell them that due to personal circumstances there is a possiblity of you being away when they want to drop the tape stuff over.

          ask if you can have it one week later.

          We went through the same thing and our NFH knew when we were having the box installed.

          we used it twice and put it back a week the second time......intrestingly enough, the week we should of had it the NFH were quiet, the second week they were not! as it happened they moved out in the middle of the night 3 days into having the equipment!

          the LA have to write and inform NFH that they are being monitored as it infringes on their human rights.....yeah....I wont repeat what we said when we heard that!

          So they do know......

          good luck


          • #6
            I have a question regarding recording people (audio and video) without them knowing. If it's illegal - how do all the tv production companies get away with it? Watchdog, Britain's Worst e.g. All those programmes where they trap rogue tradesmen, all the investigative journalism programmes where they tape people with hidden cameras? They certainly don't sign a waiver saying "Yes you can use this on tv to be seen by millions"!!!!

            Is this yet another case of the law being an a**?? As if the BBC can tape someone and show it to the British public - why can't a member of the public tape someone getting up to illegal activity?!

            I'm confused!


            • #7
              Hi and welcome to the forum

              Well, what can I say? It sounds like you have had a horrible time for years with your nfh. I suffered noise nuisance for a matter of months and it really affected me, so I can only begin to imagine how you must be feeling.

              Regarding the noise issue, with us, it never got as far as even bringing in recording equipment from the Enironmental Health (EH) department. In your situation, it seems like your nfh got wise to the fact that if they kept quiet whilst the machinery was there that you couldn't get much further.

              I think you should start recording the noise again. This time, when you get back in touch with the EH dept tell them you want this complaint dealt with differently. This may be a new complaint, but somewhere in their building, they should have the old records (I think they need to keep them for a set period of time, six years possibly).

              Tell them the recording equipment won't work (as nfh are warned and tone down the noise) and you want them to come and witness the noise themsleves - tell them it would be helpful if they didn't turn up in a Council van (thus advertising their arrival).

              Regarding the anti-social behaviour issue, people are right, you need to get back in touch with Police - speak to your local Crime Prevention Officer.

              I have just read through your post again and I can't find information about your accommodation.

              Are you a Council/ Housing Association (HA)/ Private tenant or do you own your home?

              What about your nfh?

              If you are both renting from the Council or HA, have you been in touch with them about the behaviour of the nfh?

              Sorry to ask questions, but it does help in the options open to you.

              It sounds like a horrible situation for all of you, your children included, as no doubt they will be affected by the noise and behaviour of the nfh. Have you spoken to the school about it so that they are aware?

              Regarding the slapping incident, yes, it is unfortunate but I'm sure that we can see how you got to that point. A heat of the moment thing. I would never advocate violence at any time, it's not something I would ever do. And by making threats to the nfh, you may not be making the best of your case against them.

              I look forward to hearing your responses to the points above regarding the type of home you are in, as I may be able to offer further information.

              Stick with it at_my_wits_end and let us know how you get on. Come back here often, as I'm sure you will get much more advice and support from the other members.


              • #8
                HI again thankyou all for your speedy replys and advice, after reading i realized there were a few points i hadnt made clear,i am afraid i own my own home the NFH is a council tenant.The NFH were working on everybodys cars, none of the cars that are driven by the NFH have tax, but the police when told about this(after the NFH smashed the first car).they no longer work on cars in there garden but seem to store their friends cars there. i have involved our local MP who is trying to deal with the rubbish left all over the garden. Fences are broken and although we have in the past paid for them to be fixed, we can no longer afford to do this. the fencing concerned is as we found out the responsibility of the NFH or at least if she told the council they would fix it, she told me she had phoned the council about the fencing this was in july 2002,i phoned the council myself only to be told that the tenant responsible has to inform them, when i told them that i was phoning to ask if the NFH had reported it, they said due to the data protection act they couldnt tell me wether it had been reported by the tenant or not.yes i did get the WPC'S no but thought it better not to post here, i have also involved the local mediation services as i was told it would be in my favour to do so, they have had no response from the NFH.regarding other neighbours the house the other side of the NFH is up for sale i know she has a problem with the constant music and door slamming but she is trying to move so she would not be willing to get involved. and the lady the other side of me came round once to ask me to move a car outside her house i told the lady that the car belonged to a visitor of the NFH, she later informed me that when she called round to the NFH, she heard the NFH saying to her guest "the old bag up the road wants you to move the car". the lady does not have noise problems with the NFH and i have found that due to large numbers of youths/men that frequent the NFH'S house most neighbours feel intimidated and unwilling to get involved, i remember one of the first times i asked her to turn down her music her father whom lives up the road said to me "why dont you get on with your own life and keep your nose out of hers(NFH) well i can honestly say i wish i could. As for reporting the noise to the police the NFH'S son (whom also complains on occassions) once stood in the back garden and shouted to my daughter "we can have our music on as loud as we like untill 11.30, and theres nothing your mum can do about it" well i guess hes right.On slapping my NFH i am not proud of the fact that i did this however everyone i know said they couldnt understand why i hadnt done it years ago.


                • #9
                  Thanks for that further information.

                  Right. When you start of with your log/ recording sheets for the EH dept, make sure you get a copy.

                  Take this to the local Council Housing Office and ask to speak to the Officer for that "patch" / or the Area Manager, tell them about the years of harassment you have had from this (whole) family. Make notes for yourself, so that you remember everything you want to speak to them about.

                  Ask them what they intend to do about their tenants behaviour. Ask them to confirm the outcome of your meeting in writing.

                  Do all the other things that other members have advised as well. Please let us know how you get on and come back here often to check what other members have said.

                  Good luck. Keep strong and keep safe.


                  • #10

                    The bit about the CCTV and video-ing the neighbours. Well, I just cannot say on that point. We had friends over for lunch yesterday and Sally's husband is a solicitor who works for a big firm of insurers investigating fraudulent claims.

                    He did say that this area and section of law could be used and has been interpreted wrongly - many times - by the Police.

                    It could be that was why they asked AMWE to alter her camera. I am NOT saying that, that is the case. I was just merely pointing out that it COULD be one of the reasons why the WPC knocked on AMWE's door and asked for it to be altered.

                    Which is why I directed her to the path of the Police Headquarters for her area. The fact is here she is looking out for her own property and that she is being given differing information.

                    I think she needs to go higher within the Police structure and ascertain exactly what she can and cannot do, what the regulations are and the laws governing this area.

                    It's a pain in the padded a** I know, but the Human Rights law is so complex and has many different interpretations put on it that even judges get it wrong - that by the way was not my words they were Sally's husbands.

                    I hope that I have clarified this point.


                    • #11
                      Thanks Badger, Scoobs, there's still points on this I want to raise - but this is someone elses thread so I won't hijack it - will start another at some point.


                      • #12
                        hi amwe,

                        I don't know how you kept your hands to yourself for so long. Today some people seem to take the moral high ground about retaliation, but sometimes it works. Some years ago we had a problem with the son of a neighbour who would play music so loud it would make the windows rattle. No amount of pleading worked. One day our son was visiting and heard this, whenhe realised what it was doing to us he just picked up the phone and within ten minutes four fellars arrived in a car, they were giants. They didn't touch this lad they just spoke to him in his own language. Peace followed.

                        Anyway, enough of that. Here is a point which might be relevent. If your nfh is a council tenant then they will more than likely have signed a tenancy agreemen. This will include protection for the neighbours from anti social behaviour and use of the premises. Who knows, from what you describe about lots of men in and out could it be a house of ill repute?

                        you have got to try everything you can, don't have any scruples they don't and good luck.