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  • Moral Maze

    Hi everyone,



    I've corresponded in the past about my NFH who during the summer made our lives uncomfortable with threats of violence to my wife. Through the group we've learned to ignore the threats and to a certain extent our NFH.



    http://www.nfh.org.uk/forums/index.p...topic=1917&hl=



    Now that the nights have got colder, our NFH stay indoors and fight among themselves.



    The problem we now face is that their arguments have become increasingly violent to the extent that we can actually hear him hitting her with alarming clarity - sometimes against the wall or the window.



    Whilst I have no love for either of them and my instinct is to let them kill one another, the simple fact is that this woman is another human being and a violent thug twice her size is beating her up. She's even started wearing the cliched dark glasses to conceal the bruising.



    The problem we've faced from day one is that because of the layout of our houses (Victorian terraces) we are the only ones who really hear the noise coming from next door unless you happen to be passing the window while one of their rows are taking place. So if we report it to the Police it's obvious who did the deed and the chances are that they will turn on us and perhaps I'll come home to find him beating up my wife or daugher in retaliation for reporting them.



    My daughter finds it difficult to sleep at night because of the constant disturbances and she bless her soul is concerned out Mrs NFH's welfare. We can't reason with them to keep the noise down and we are doubtful about reporting them to the police because of the possible repercussions.



    So what does the group think?



    Do we close our ears and eyes and let our NFH continue with his psychotic behaviour?



    Do we report him and risk bringing the trouble to ourselves?
    "Blue Blue 'letric Blue that's the colour of my room, where I will live."

  • #2
    Hi Crispy



    I understand you have a dilemma here......however, I think probably the easiest way to alert the police is to anonymously (even saying you pass by the house, and have witnessed this on more than on occasion) ring the national Crimestoppers number. You can legitimately do this anonymously. OK, they may still assume it's you, but the police can just say it was passersby reported it. I wonder if Crimestoppers had more than one person report it, this may add weight to the report? Once this is reported to the police, however, doesn't mean it will necessarily stop, and his wife/partner may deny to the police that any violence is going on. However, that is a choice only she can make. Should raising these concerns not have any effect, the only way then will be to report EVERY disturbance to the police until they catch him through witnessing what's happening.



    Thing is, if you don't report it, not only does this woman go on getting beaten up(although I understand your own family safety comes above all else), but your family still has to listen to it and be disturbed (and perhaps, one day be dragged into an investigation after a tragedy).



    On top of this, the disturbance sounds sufficient for E.H. involvement, so you may want to log all this for them, and have a two-pronged approach to this.



    Just to remind us Crispy, are your nfh renting or owner-occupiers?



    At the end of the day, there's only yourselves who can weigh this up, and of course your family's safety is most important, so good luck with deciding which way to go with this.





    Regards,



    Sapph

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Cripsy,



      I understand the dilemma that you feel as obviously your own family's safety comes first, but I really do believe you should report it.



      Sapph's ideas of anonymously calling Crimestoppers is a good one.



      No matter how you feel about this couple, it's not right to turn a blind eye to domestic abuse. Yes, she may deny it to the police, but at least you are given her a chance.



      Let us know what you decide



      Blue Cow

      Comment


      • #4
        It is difficult. I was more than surprised when my complaints about next door did not result in any retaliation. But if it does, then it just gives you more cause for complaint.



        Again, our situation was that my daughter was affected - she is petrified of nfh and his brothers and avoids them. This last weekend I was concered that nfh was being abusive to mother - language was truly awful, and worried that he might hit her, so I phoned the police on that premise. The response was almost immediate, so I would say it was worth a go. Even if you do give your name, the police can't tell your nfh, and just reiterate to police when making the complaint/concern, that you don't need a visit from them.



        Good luck. There's nothing worse than hearing stuff like that and feeling powerless. you'll have to judge how things are when you phone. It's a scary leap to make, but sometimes you've got to.

        Comment


        • #5
          I would hate to have to make this decision but if you think this woman is really at risk I think reporting it, anonymously if you can, is the only thing to do. It may be that this man is known to the police if he is so violent and if so they will be more likely to act on your complaint quickly. I think if you can't report it anonymously, you should make sure the police are aware of your fears of reprisals.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi Crispy.



            I had a similar issue with my NFH earlier this year where we called the police. The police came round but the NFH and wife denied anything had happened.



            We were then subject to about 2 hours of noise in the early hours of the morning by the NFH turning his speakers to our wall and playing his music full blast.



            Our baby son was ill with chicken pox at the time but thankfully didn't wake up.



            When we called the police again to report the noise, the police weren't interested.



            Now I know that you have genuine concerns, but based on my experience you must put the safety of your own family first. It sounds to me that your NFH wife will deny everything and you may be targetted again.



            And I think other members have had similar problems when reporting NFH infighting.



            Only you know your NFH but if it was me, don't report it and just leave them to it.



            Whilst it would be great to live in a romantic world where we call the police to such incidents and it all gets miraculously sorted, the reality is quite different.



            If they aren't directly threatening you, then let it go. I know my NFH's wife loves it when her husband is targetting us because then she is left alone. When they are targetting each other the it means that they are leaving you alone. They will know that you cna hear what's going on and deep down some of them will feel ashamd of their behaviour, though probably not the NFH.



            You've had enough problems off this lot without trying to resolve their issues too. If it can be heard in the street then let someone in the street report it.



            I'm not wishing to sound harsh or unfeeling and there may be some who disagree but when tackling an NFH, YOUR SAFETY IS PARAMOUNT and overides any other concerns.



            If you need to explain it to your daughter, tell her what I've told you above about my NFH and the subsequent retaliation telling her that her and your families safety comes above all else and also that there are agencies that can help the NFHs wife but ultimately its up to the NFH wife to take action.



            And I'm going to put an open message here for any wives or partners of NFHs who are suffering verbal and physical abuse and are reading this.



            You are the victim of a crime and your partners actions against your neighbour(s) are also wholly unjustifiable. If you are going to turn a blind eye to the harassment your neighbour(s) is(are) receiving then do not be surprised if your neighbours ignore the abuse you are also receiving. Only you can break this cycle of violence by going to the appropriate authorities. How much longer and how much worse do things have to get before you have a real tragedy on your hands?

            You can phone Crimestoppers anonymously on 0800 555 111 who will be able to advise you of agencies that can help you. Act now before its too late for you and too late for your children.


            All IMO.



            Rockbank
            Now, these creatures are bringers of death and misery. They will never eat, they will never sleep, and they will never stop.



            We are part of an ancient secret society. For three thousand years we have guarded the Cities and Towns. We are sworn at manhood to do any and all in our power to stop the NFH from ever being reborn into this world.




            So what's the plan?



            Rescue the damsel in distress, stop the bad guys, save the world.

            Comment


            • #7
              Can I just add to that, that if anyone reading this needs help/advice/escape from domestic violence. the Women's Aid National Domestic Violence Helpline(24 hour) number is:





              (0845) 7023468

              Comment


              • #8
                My earlier reply was based on an unhappy experience. Many years ago now in a street next to the one where i lived, it was known that a husband regularly abused his wife. The police had been called a few times but in those days they were even less interested in "domestics" than they are now. A few neighbours had expressed concern but most decided not to get involved. The reason I say it was an unhappy experience is that eventually he killed her.



                It is because of that that I would now be likely to call the police and make a fuss.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi crispy



                  Sorry to hear you have this dilemma at the moment.



                  At the end of the day, only you and you family can make the deicsion about what to do - and I'm sure you'll make the right one.



                  If I was in that position, I really don't know what I'd do.



                  I'd know what I felt I ought to do, but sometimes you do have to put you and yours above someone else. I'd maybe try to get someone else to report it via Crimestoppers.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Eskander,

                    A few neighbours had expressed concern but most decided not to get involved. The reason I say it was an unhappy experience is that eventually he killed her.



                    It is because of that that I would now be likely to call the police and make a fuss.




                    In those days the victim had to report the crime. This is different to the situation in the USA where others can report domestic violence.



                    Also had he found out who had reported him, maybe someone else would have been killed?



                    Crispy needs to protect his own family. If the authorities had a system whereby those who reported it were protected then perhaps I'd feel differently but the welfare of Crispy's family come first and foremost IMO.
                    Now, these creatures are bringers of death and misery. They will never eat, they will never sleep, and they will never stop.



                    We are part of an ancient secret society. For three thousand years we have guarded the Cities and Towns. We are sworn at manhood to do any and all in our power to stop the NFH from ever being reborn into this world.




                    So what's the plan?



                    Rescue the damsel in distress, stop the bad guys, save the world.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Crispy



                      I would phone the police if i heard or saw any person beating or assaulting another. no matter who they were. . i would expect the police to respect my anonymity and even if the person found out i had reported them, i would stand by my decision.



                      sometimes in this life you have to make a stand for what is right, and , again in my opinion, i simply could not turn a blind eye or a deaf ear towards this kind of thing.



                      i understand and apprecaite what the others are saying about looking after your own safety first, but , again, in my opinion, i would not use this as any kind of excuse to justify doing nothing.



                      its black and white to me, you must report it.
                      http://bestsmileys.com/sparkle/1.gif



                      I decree today that life

                      Is simply taking and not giving

                      England is mine - it owes me a living

                      But ask me why, and I'll spit in your eye

                      Oh, ask me why, and I'll spit in your eye ~ Morrisey/Marr




                      Politics is Showbusiness for ugly people ~ Jay Leno



                      I don't like liars, I don't like cheats. I don't like bullsh***ters. I don't like schmoozers. I don't like ar*e-lickers. ~ Sir Alan Sugar



                      "Why, Sir, you find no man, at all intellectual, who is willing to leave London. No, Sir, when a man is tired of London, he is tired of life; for there is in London all that life can afford." ~ Samuel Johnson



                      The secret of success is the capacity to overcome failure ~ Noel Coward



                      An economist is an expert who will know tomorrow why the things he predicted yesterday didn’t happen today ~ Laurence J. Peter



                      Always laugh when you can. It is cheap medicine ~ Lord Byron



                      Better bread with water than cake with trouble ~ Russian Proverb



                      There is no trouble so great or grave that cannot be much diminished by a cup of tea ~ Bernard-Paul Heroux



                      Carpe Diem



                      Give Yourself to It ~ Sue Gadenne

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Annabel,



                        I respect your opinion but what exactly do you expect the police to do when the NFH's wife denies that there has been a problem?



                        I refer everyone to Crispys original post where it was stated...



                        For the last 2 years my wife and I have been suffering from our own NFH usually involving them screaming and hitting each other or screaming abuse outside our house at us for hours on end….but the police will do nothing…



                        And they'll do nothing this time. Just like the last 2 years. It's right to report threats against Crispy's family as this builds up into the bigger picture.



                        I agree that sometimes in life we have to make a stand. Crispy has already made a stand against the behaviour of the NFH and the police won't respond. All Crispy can do is continue to log and record everything...and come back here regularly of course.



                        I don't see that the welfare of the NFHs family should come before Crispy's.
                        Now, these creatures are bringers of death and misery. They will never eat, they will never sleep, and they will never stop.



                        We are part of an ancient secret society. For three thousand years we have guarded the Cities and Towns. We are sworn at manhood to do any and all in our power to stop the NFH from ever being reborn into this world.




                        So what's the plan?



                        Rescue the damsel in distress, stop the bad guys, save the world.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Rockbank,



                          Didn't mean to imply disagreement with your views - this just made me recall how I felt at the time of the incident I mentioned - and how it has influenced my views of what I would do if a similar situation arose.



                          I entirly agree that we should protect our loved ones, but as Crispy implies life is full of moral mazes. I'm sure your advice is wise and will have been well received.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            yes, i agree people have to keep themselves and their families safe, rockbank, but the domestic violence is affecting crispy and so he has to log it and report it. it would be different if he coudnt care less what is happening next door, but he does and says it also bothers his kid.



                            i dont understand why the police are not doing anything, but as far as i am aware domestic violence is taken seriously, and they should attend.



                            a lot of battered wives deny anything has happened to them, next thing you know they are in hospital or worse.



                            its still clear to me. report it and keep at it.
                            http://bestsmileys.com/sparkle/1.gif



                            I decree today that life

                            Is simply taking and not giving

                            England is mine - it owes me a living

                            But ask me why, and I'll spit in your eye

                            Oh, ask me why, and I'll spit in your eye ~ Morrisey/Marr




                            Politics is Showbusiness for ugly people ~ Jay Leno



                            I don't like liars, I don't like cheats. I don't like bullsh***ters. I don't like schmoozers. I don't like ar*e-lickers. ~ Sir Alan Sugar



                            "Why, Sir, you find no man, at all intellectual, who is willing to leave London. No, Sir, when a man is tired of London, he is tired of life; for there is in London all that life can afford." ~ Samuel Johnson



                            The secret of success is the capacity to overcome failure ~ Noel Coward



                            An economist is an expert who will know tomorrow why the things he predicted yesterday didn’t happen today ~ Laurence J. Peter



                            Always laugh when you can. It is cheap medicine ~ Lord Byron



                            Better bread with water than cake with trouble ~ Russian Proverb



                            There is no trouble so great or grave that cannot be much diminished by a cup of tea ~ Bernard-Paul Heroux



                            Carpe Diem



                            Give Yourself to It ~ Sue Gadenne

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Crispy



                              Good to hear from you again but sorry it's under these circumstances. I often wondered how you were getting along - still think of the sock stuffed with coins scenario.



                              Have read what the others have said and am so pleased I am not in your position. The one big question I would ask myself is "Am I afraid of the nfh". If the answer is yes, then I think I would do nothing. If the answer is no, then I would probably go to crimestoppers.



                              Having said that, I have never had to and hope never to, face the position you are in so in reality, I really don't know what I would do. I agree with rockbank in that the safety of your family and yourself is of paramount importance. I also recall seeing a documentary some years ago where a high proportion of battered wives basically resented any outside "interference". Strange but true.



                              I wish you luck with this one. A very nasty situation to be in and there is no cut and dried, right or wrong, answer.



                              Take care.



                              John
                              "You have to be the change you wish to see in the world"

                              Comment

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