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  • No Justice

    Hi, this is Antique

    Some of you may remember our problems with nfh over the past four years. salacious rumour, false allegations etc. We tried the social services, police, housing association; you name we tried it. None of them want to take any action even when there is evidence and witnesses. We had a couple of case numbers (urn) they are officialy called for two of the incidents. One most recently was a threat to kill me for something i hadn't done. This was witnessed! Then a false counter allegation was made to the police against me, which later, thanks to the witnesses was proven to be false. This was the last straw and so we decide we would investigate the possibilty of getting a anti harassment injunction. We needed the case notes from the two incidents and so i applied to the police data protection officer for these notes. We had been advised by the police and the housing association to take out a civil case. We received a reply today. First of all they wanted £27,50 for the privilege of supplying me with my own statement. I thought I had already paid for the police through my council and income taxes. The reply also stated that I would not be allowed to use this information to "support a civil case" What is the point of gathering evidence if you are not able to use it. The data protection act is a good thing if used properly but how can this be fair? We were considering the injunction only because no one else would take responsibility and we were going to do it ourselves it it wasn't too daunting and complicated to save money. Who these days can afford solicitors?

  • #2
    Hi Antique,

    Typical bureaucracy & no scope for common sense, eh? :blink:

    I do believe that these organisations are permitted to charge a 'nominal' fee for you to see the file - I think it's written in the Act, so they are acting correctly on that front, unfortunately :sad: .

    If you are pursuing this yourself, have you been to see the Clerk of the Court? They can be very helpful for persons who wish to represent themselves and they might be able to give you some good ideas as to how to gather your information and how to present your case.

    I am bewildered as to why the police notes could not be used in your case - what's that all about???

    I think if I were in your situation, I would write to the Police to explain that I was raising my own action and would they please confirm that they attended on XXX date and that they logged an incident no XXX and the nature of the incident. They'd have no reaon to refuse this info - it's only stating the bare facts.

    Real good luck to you :clover:

    Please let us know how you get on - we are willing you that it CAN be done




    • #3
      Not too sure about this. It is correct that the data protection act says you can access records about yourself and sets a nominal fee - I though it was £10. I think it also stipulates that data cannot be used for a purpose other that the purpose it was gathered for - this is to stop data being "sold on" to others and may explain why the police say you cannot use this info for a private prosecution. But, it doesn't quite make sense to me, who is going to stop you using it and how once you've got it?

      It may be that a court will say it's inadmissible but that's for the court to decide not the police. As others have said, I would seek advice, not just accpet the word of the police.


      • #4

        Have read about this somewhere and think it's something to do with the massive legal difference between criminal and civil law.

        Would check quickly with CAB.

        Good luck.

        "You have to be the change you wish to see in the world"


        • #5
          Hi Antique

          Check out on for your local Advice Centre/CAB - they ahould be able to help you further with your query/case.


          • #6
            Criminal law needs to be proven 'beyond all reasonable doubt', civil law just needs the 'balance of probabilities' to be in your favor.

            Howard:"You wanna be careful, before you know it you'll wake up in a bush singing songs about brooms"

            Vince:"You don't know anything about me. Do you know anything about me?"

            Howard:"I know...of you"

            Vince:"Yeah, well, if you knew me you'd know that I don't sing songs about brooms...I sing songs about love...

            Lovely lady with the eye

            Lovely lady with the eye

            You've only got one but it's a good one

            Lovely lady with the eye, the eye, the eye, the eye, the eye

            coming forward on a string, thats not normal, urgh

            Yeah! I'm in a band..."


            • #7
              Hi, this is Antique,

              Thanks everyone for your advice, some very good points i will follow up. I will keep you apraised of the situation but i am hopeing the housing association will apply for the injunction. have you read the case in the daily mail about the poor chap who had to do his own civil case because the police said the protection from harassment Act only covered "Stalking" B****y typicle no one wants to take responsibility. Even though this chap was assaulted and bitten, threatened to be killed and had tape recordings, what use are the police these days. He won his case, a suspended 6month sentence. The costs were awarded £62,000 and compensation but how frightening can that be £62,000 and he represented himself because he was a lawyer.


              • #8
                Yep, close to home there with that example :nfh1:


                • #9
                  You need to get in contact with the Data Protection Commission. Data Protection

                  They should be able to answer any question.

                  Here's a point to consider. "Officer, I am being harmed by the actions of Mr X. You seem unwilling to help me. The fact that you seem unwilling to help me could be a breach of my Human rights." I wonder... Might be worth checking on this one.


                  • #10
                    For the past five years we have had to put up with NFH next door. We live in an ex council house which we have made our home for the past 30 plus years; it is in a small close of 8 houses and we get on with most of the other residents, although we don't live in each others houses. Our NFH and their off springs have managed to drive one family away and the people who moved in to their house have asked for a transfer. Basically they have caused noise through our party wall and eventualy we got it stopped because they were caught red handed by the housing officer, soory, I didn't say they are housing association tenants. Then they went onto making up stories to the police that I was taking photos og their daughter in their back garden, which incidently was full of rubbish, furniture and the like. Any way they were not very good because the time they gave the police for this alledged incident I was five miles away and had witnesses to prove it. They have got their young daughter to tell every one who will listen that I am a pervert. Then last feb i was threatened; this loverly fish wife threatened to kill me, again for doing something I didn't do and again with witnesses it was proved i was innocent. Then came the allegation to the police again that I had threatened to kill her daughter; she even tried to get one of the witnesses to lie, she wouldn't and told the police that I had not made any threats, so again I wa proved Innocent. There have been manuy other incidents which appear to follow the normal course for a NFH. So we decided because the housing association didn't do anything; they even ignored a letter from our solicitor we decided to go to the Local government ombudsman. We sent all the relevent papers with witness statements and letters to and from the H.A. 4 weeks later they returned them saying they could not deal with this complaint but to try the Housing ombudsman; we sent all the papers to the H.O. only to have them returned saying they could not deal with this complaint either because they only deal with complaint between landlord and tenant. I have gone through all the proper procedures and still no one wants to help us. I have been told that i can go to the council and they might apply for a ASBO if I have enough evidence; the only problem with that is that I have just had alook on the internet at the application for a ASBO and they put a six month time limit, what is it with these goverment organisations/ they all have time limits. So I ask Who is going to protect us? There doesn't seem to be an Ombudsman for home owners and being pensioners we don't have the money to go to court because our savings are for our old age. I won't give up but the options appear to be getting fewer!!


                    • #11
                      This has certainly hit a nail on the head. Feeling the way I do about the authorities at the moment, I really can't say much more...don't they just let you down with a THUD :rant: :angry: :badmood:


                      • #12
                        Hello Antique,

                        I remember your story very well as something similar but nowhere near as serious happened to my husband around the same time.

                        I really don't know what to say because you are right, unless you're on benefits or very rich you are denied justice

                        Have you thought of contacting Frank Field MP. He is very anti-NFH and even though he is not your MP he may be able to give you some advice.

                        I'm sorry I can't think of anything else to advise right now. I'm glad to hear that you will not give up. It's a long hard slog but hopefully, eventually you will find the help you need.

                        Good luck

                        "Almost anything you do will seem insignificant, but it is very important that you do it. You must be the change that you wish to see in the world." Gandhi


                        • #13
                          Hi Antique

                          I know that sometimes having to go through what you're going through can feel very :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

                          You need to look through the information on the Protection from Harassment Act (look in the legislation link, below in my signature). You should also consider talking to your local Community Police Officer about these neighbours and their behaviour towards you.

                          Seeing a Solicitor and asking them to send a letter to your neighbours telling them to stay away from you and cease spreading malicious gossip might be money well spent.

                          You need to make sure that you're logging everything where there is a nuisance being caused, make sure you're in contact with the HA (the landlord of these neighbours). If other people are being affected by them too, they need to be doing the same.


                          • #14
                            Thanks everyone for the sypathy and advice, Frank Field sounds good. I have at this moment a 36 A4 Page diary of events; the police have some records but don't seem to want to do anything, even when it involves threat to kill. The HA has spent the past 14 months lying to me, first they tell me they can't act because of counter allegationsyet, when i ask for the proof of these counter allegations they can't produce them, they don't exist. Then the H A tell me that the witnesses won't go to court; I ask the witnesses and they tell me they have never been asked and are willing to go to court, thus the time has run out because we have relied on the H A to do something and they have failed. I am going to contact the local councillor who is on the police authority board and ask him to see if we can get an exception granted aginst the time limit for the application of an ASBO (six months, magistrates law) I am keepeing my MP up to date so hope for some help now he knows the housing ombudsman has denied us justice. The one thing about ASBOs is that hersay evidence and all previouse evidence can be usedso, all I have to wait for is the next bit of grief and I will be straight in fo the ASBO, thats if I don't get anywhere this time.

                            I will keep you updated but it may be some time

                            thanks again.


                            • #15
                              Hi everyone, I haven't posted for some time now because things are still dragging on but may be near the end. My NFH you may recall has attempted to paint me as a pervert and continualy finds excuses to contact the police. This is intended to cause me and my wife stress, which it does and has actuly caused me to have some heart problems recently.

                              You will have read in my original post that we have witnesses to this fanily's antics but the H/A and the police have avoided doing anything until I wrote to everyone i could think of, because no ombudsman could act.

                              Any way, the latest petty thing is cutting my hedge...because we are having a conservatory built at the back of our house it was necassary to cut down part of our hedge, it's not a boundary hedge; it's about six feet inside our boundary, our boundry is a six foot panel fence and the hedge was higher so it gave us some privacy. I could not believe it when the police officer said my NFH had reported that I had cut my hedge. I couldn't believe the police would even write it down let alone call on me. :bigeyes:

                              I don't know if it is me but my NFH seems to be able to get the police to call at will and I have to waite days even when I have been threatened.

                              This brings me to another bit of harrasment, over the bank holiday weekend, I was still undergoing treatment for my heart scare when we had a visit from the police, my wife being concerned that i didn't get upset was quite protective and asked the police officer what it was about, evidently my NFH had reported that I had threatened him.

                              I am 65 years old, sick and not very big, my NFH is 40 strong and powerfully built and a bully. He just recently intimidated another neighbour about damage he did to his fence and the neighbour has repaired it and not charged him a penny.

                              Anyway I am hopeful something is going to be done soon but because of all the other false starts I won't hold my breath. I am so cynical now that I wouldn't be surprised if I was the one who gets the ASBO!!!