Trouble In Paradise

[flame]

:unsure: I have a large garden. When we bought the house in Oct 04, we were thrilled to see how many birds live in the garden. The previous owners had neglected the garden so over the years a natural habitat has grown up, with lots of thick hedgerows etc. :D

I have always been interested in birds, so introduced lots of feeders and a table for my feathered friends. I spend a lot of time observing them from my conservatory window. I have a large clan of house sparrows living in a thick hedge of holly. A blackbird who would come to the door for food. A real cast of characters. The sparrows especially are very entertaining with their antics. Over the course of the winter word got round of a good palce to eat. Soon we were being visited by many different species. It has got so busy I have to buy large 25kg sacks of food.

First we had the usual problems with squirrels. We bought a couple of RSPB recommended fortress feeders. They are caged and the squirrels and larger birds can't get in. Everyone seemed happy, we have created a haven for wildlife, planted things that would attract natural foods for them. Lots of nests in garden and plenty of healthy fledlings. This paradise had so much to offer our feathered friends, that it quickly became a place to hang out for all sorts of birds. The garden was buzzing, birds chilling B), well fed, a constant source of pleasure for me.

:cry: But in the space of a few weeks a NFH has moved into the area. My fat feathered friends have attracted the attention of a Sparrow hawk. Yes I know it is natural. I don't dispute that, they have to eat to. :o But it doesn't seem to hunt anywhere else for a meal other than our garden. First I started finding piles of feathers, normally collared doves or wood pigeons. They have understandably cleared off. So now she has turned her attention to all my residents. Paradise has now turned into hell. I find it upseting to see them flying for their lives. :cry: For some it is a fantastic sight to see a hawk bearing down on its prey but not every day. Even when we are out there we have to duck at times as the hawk swoops around the garden.

The birds seem to have lookouts, I hear the alarm call go out. They all bunker down but the hawk persists until she flushes someone out. I can't bear to watch out the window anymore at all this carnage. Perhaps she has young at moment.

I have pushed the table into the hedgerow so they can feed uncover and the caged feeders I have hung in the holly bush.This seems to be helping, but there is no longer the sound of happy chirping birds, you can feel the tension out there. I hope if it is the case she is feeding young, that this carnage may soon calm down.
Does anyone else have experience of sparrowhawks? :bigeyes:

[Bonkers Mad!!!]

how sad.

i'd be the same as you, we have Kestrals around here and seeing them hunt is amazing but i certainly wouldn't want to see it every day in my own garden.

hopefully if, like you say, she is feeding young then it might not last. i doubt that there's anything you can do to deter her but still keep the other birds coming :(

[Eeyore]

We had sparrowhawks where we used to live, don't get them now as it's not rural enough I guess, once had one hit the window and break its neck at our old place, Mr Eeyore found it, it was beautiful :)

But I agree, they are a pest to small birds (we get Magpies here which are almost as bad), try this link here (http://www.rspb.org.uk/gardens/advice/deterrents/sparrowhawk_deterrents.asp?view=print) for some ideas on deterrents :)

[goosegirl]

Hello there,

We live in a town near a ring road, and live in a semi with a large end garden. Kestrels and sparrow hawks are town birds. They are built for speed. Their main hunting areas are gardens. But kestrels like to hang about hovering in open spaces watching for food.

The only reason you now notice them is because you have a nice haven.

We have kestrels and sparrow hawks, and like you say you know when they arrive. All the birds take note of the look outs. Its mainly the weak or very young that lose out. We have the magpies and crows, also sea gulls raiding nests too. Then the neighbourhoods cats, and we have also had a neighbours eagle owl sat in our hedge causing mayhem.

GG.

[Domestic Goddess]

This (http://www.rspb.org.uk/birds/whatyoucando/feedinggardenbirds/deterring.asp) is what the RSPB has to say on the subject. I can imagine how upsetting this is for you. You can pride in the fact that you have been doing so well for your birds that they have attracted this predator. You can buy dead mice etc to feed snakes from pet shops, I wonder if putting some out for the sparrowhawk would help matters .....horrible thought though - yuk!

[goosegirl]

Just a thought,

Dont put dead mice etc out side, it will attract rats, and upset the neighbours.

Also birds of prey are tuned to motion of their prey, and will ignore food left out for them.

Its hard to watch but is the natural balance of things. At least the birds live a free normal life until then. Thats a heck of a lot better than our factory farmed prey does.


GG.

[flame]

Originally posted by Eeyore@19th August 2005 - 9:42 AM
We had sparrowhawks where we used to live, don't get them now as it's not rural enough I guess, once had one hit the window and break its neck at our old place, Mr Eeyore found it, it was beautiful** :)

But I agree, they are a pest to small birds (we get Magpies here which are almost as bad), try this link here (http://www.rspb.org.uk/gardens/advice/deterrents/sparrowhawk_deterrents.asp?view=print) for some ideas on deterrents** :)
128476

:thumbs: Thanks Eeyore for that, I will try some of those tips

[flame]

Originally posted by Bonkers Mad!!!@19th August 2005 - 9:24 AM
how sad.**

i'd be the same as you, we have Kestrals around here and seeing them hunt is amazing but i certainly wouldn't want to see it every day in my own garden.

hopefully if, like you say, she is feeding young then it might not last.** i doubt that there's anything you can do to deter her but still keep the other birds coming** :(
128457

Thanks Bonkers for your kind words

[flame]

Originally posted by goosegirl@19th August 2005 - 9:59 AM
Hello there,

We live in a town near a ring road, and live in a semi with a large end garden.** Kestrels and sparrow hawks are town birds.** They are built for speed.** Their main hunting areas are gardens.** But kestrels like to hang about hovering in open spaces watching for food.

The only reason you now notice them is because you have a nice haven.

We have kestrels and sparrow hawks, and like you say you know when they arrive.** All the birds take note of the look outs.** Its mainly the weak or very young that lose out.** We have the magpies and crows, also sea gulls raiding nests too.** Then the neighbourhoods cats, and we have also had a neighbours eagle owl sat in our hedge causing mayhem.

GG.
128491

:unsure: Hi Goosegirl, we too are troubled by other pests. Cats epecially, although my little dog chases them. Being so small they aren't sure what she is, she belts out of the house like a bullet out of a gun. It seems to of detered them a bit. The garden has a lot of thick hedging around a lot of it which cats find differcult to penetrate. Maggies and crows are pests too, I put food on the ground for them, I kinda hope it keeps their minds off other things if they are getting food from me. At least I don't see them doing anything.

[flame]

Originally posted by Domestic Goddess@19th August 2005 - 10:20 AM
This (http://www.rspb.org.uk/birds/whatyoucando/feedinggardenbirds/deterring.asp) is what the RSPB has to say on the subject.** I can imagine how upsetting this is for you.** You can pride in the fact that you have been doing so well for your birds that they have attracted this predator.** You can buy dead mice etc to feed snakes from pet shops, I wonder if putting some out for the sparrowhawk would help matters .....horrible thought though - yuk!
128500

Thanks, I have any ready read what they have to say. I have read on another site about saving song birds that the RSPB are not reporting all the facts. That songbirds are suffering more at the hands of birds that prey than we think. I agree with alot of what RSPB say as they have the interest of all birds.

[flame]

Originally posted by banana@19th August 2005 - 10:48 AM
Hi flame,

are you sure you aren't my mother?

Just joking, this is exactly the same experience my mum has had with her 'bird sanctuary' of a garden.

She knows most of her feathered visitors by name, and some of them will enter her kitchen and perch on her hand - it's quite 'Snow White-ish' to see. :lol:

She went through a phase like this, but take heart** - it quietens down.** The usual population learns all sorts of evasion techniques, and the collared doves return, and the sparrow hawk stopped visiting so often.

Like most 'nature' experiences if you just leave it alone - it finds a balance.

It is hard to take a back seat, but deterrents may back fire and leave you with less birds altogether.**

One factor however, my mum's garden has a lot of shady tree cover - and I think that helps, because it is more awkward for a large wing span bird to land, and also gives the little birds an opportunity to hide from the beady eyed predator.

Mum has always taken comfort in the fact the sparrow hawk leaves very little mess if left alone.** One thing we decided between us is, if the hawk kills - let it be to eat its prey.** If you disturb it, it leaves you with a mess, also it's hunger is not satisfied so it has to kill again very soon - which means more birds killed than necessary.

So let it have its kill and then it won't need to feed again for a while.

best wishes,

banana
128504

Hi Banana, Thanks for replying. Wish I had a Mum like yours, Mine, well that's another story. I'm glad I'm not the only one who is daft over little birds. I so adore them. I just wish I didn't have to know when it has happened, ignornance is bliss, as they say. I agree, I don't disturb the hawk when they are feeding because they don't leave a mess, and I don't want them making another kill. I really want to know how quick they kill them. Its got to be quicker than cats. I have alot of thick habitat in the garden, I think that is why the sparrow clan lives in the holly it provides all year cover. The garden has plenty of natural cover, but the hawk will sit on top of a tree and wait for someone to bolt.

[flame]

We already have a problem with rats coming in from next door. I already knew they will not take food offered. Yes they are stunning birds, and hopefully its quick, unlike humans who mistreat animals in every way possible. If I saw it happen anywhere else I could appreciate the sight. But I'm just to emotionally attached to my little friends. The little longtailed tits, all gone now, like little flying lollipops. I take heart that it is natural, and I love all things natural. But those little guys I see them out there and the way they are with each other. I know this is daft, but I wonder if they grieve, even if it is just for a second. I better go Bikerroc will be reading this and taking the mick.

[Bonkers Mad!!!]

nobody will take the mick :no: i am exactly the same, with all creatures, even spiders :yes:

[er 59]

hi flame
there is nothing wrong with caring for all creatures it shows you are a kind caring person
im sure no one would rib you for it :) like you i get allsorts of birds in my garden i love a pair of blackbirds who are regular visitors and their singing is lovely
i used to have a cherry tree which was home to wood pigeons they nested in it every year it was lovely to see their offspring fly with them sadly the tree became diseased and had to be cut down the wood pigeons still visit my garden though
along with sparrows crows and magpies and starlings
i understand how you feel but as others said it is natures way not much you can do :sad: take care :)

[goosegirl]

It is quick with birds of prey. It was upsetting the time I rescued a blackbird from a cat stalking it in the garden.

I got a box with straw in put it in, and took it inside. The only problem was I checked it properly in the house. Its poor belly was ripped from end to end, and stuff was hanging out. It broke my heart to take it back out, and hide it in the bushes. I could not afford to take it to a vet, and we could not finish it.

We figured it was the natural way, to leave it in its natural place to its fate.

We had 7 dead blue tits from a nest, and more collard doves from cat kills.

On a better note we are always picking up chicks that cannot fly, and putting them higher up in bushes. They know most of the time to hide and be quite, until their parents show up. Our blackbird has her second chick doing well.

We have 6 magpie chicks that always come to our garden, when we had geese they used to bounce up to them to pluck the loose feathers off them. They also do that to the cats, and mob them to shift them on.

GG.

[Bonkers Mad!!!]

considering that i have 9 cats it's quite surprising that i only have about 2 kills all year. they sometimes bring the odd live bird home which means rescuing it from behind the furniture and then running around frantically trying to find a box. i then have to round all the cats up and close all the windows before i release the bird. i think my cats are too fat to bother and they rarely move further than the doorstep. one of them caught a magpie on its first flight a few years ago and was dive bombed by the parents and had water chucked at him by me until he let go, the chick appeared to be really angry rather than scared and all three sat in next doors guttering shreiking foul bird language at him for about 20 minutes afterwards :hihi:

[er 59]

:lol: bm poor cat no wonder he doesnt bother too often probably thinks its not worth the effort
i bet your cats are all well fed and pampered so they probably have no hunting instincts they get everything they need from you :)
i did see a neighbours cat get dive bombed by magpies once it scared me more than the cat they can be vicious when defending each other they actually took off a chunk of the cats ear :o

[Bonkers Mad!!!]

oh yes, the fur flew :yes: my 3 boys only ever go as far as the garden that backs onto mine, they lay on top of an avary all day instead of my doorstep :lol: .

[goosegirl]

BM,

Sorry I didn't mean it to sound like that, the cats round here that do the damage are not looked after properly. The women lets them breed non stop so we have constant cat fights and young learning to hunt.

GG.

[Bonkers Mad!!!]

GG, i just had to read your post again and i can honestly say there is nothing offensive contained in it ;) theres no need to aplologise at all. as has been said before, nature is a beautiful thing and the only drawback with cats is that they kill for pleasure as well as for food, i hate to see a cat playing with something and then leave it for dead and will always try to rescue anything that's fetched in for fun. if it's a gift it's dead and they just leave it for me :( , if it's a plaything, it's generally alive and then i have to fight for it. even a well looked after cat will hunt for fun, i think only fat cats don't :thumbs:

[flame]

Originally posted by Triffid@19th August 2005 - 4:25 PM
wow that was fascinating but sorry I know too little about birds.
I this had been offered** up as a problem when you bought or rented your home would you have avoided the property?
I lived beside a** woodland and chalk pit nature reserve and had pheasants in my garden all day
and at night a fox used to come and even sit on our garden swing. ( He used to manage somehow to defecate on it no doubt to mark his territory although I cannot imagine how one** does that so precisely on a swing!)** We had a neighbour's goats at the far end of the garden and rabbits, hedgehogs and bats nipped in and out in great numbers but respectfully avoiding the garden swing.
As you say it was almost 'Snow White' but fortunately no Sparrowhawk.
Are homesellers required to mention things like this or are we** townies expected to know???
128610

Thanks everyone for your lovely comments. I have been out a lot so haven't seen too much of hawk. No feathers in garden. I drive hubby mad going on about it. I know the RSPB comments are right, so many are doomed anyway. But I don't get dead birds in the garden, so I don't know how many die. I know its the food chain but I love my little guys in the garden, they seem to of organized themselves with regular lookouts. Pushing the bird table into the hedge has been popular as they are undercover now. The doves have even come back to use the table. I can see their little heads peeking out at me. Collared doves are so sweet and dainty. Today I spotted a group of baby blue tits on the feeders, hope the hawk doesn't see them, they are gorgeous little guys. Our robin has been watching the other's going in the fortress feeders, keeps rushing at it and dashing out quick, comical to watch. We have a pheasant come in and a couple of ducks. My little dog chased them once, they simply moved out the way. They go to sleep in the middle of the lawn, I end up watching over them. The drake belly flops his landings in the garden, really funny. :D

[Eskander]

It's worth noting that in the 1950s and 60s sparrow hawks (and other birds of prey such as peregrin falcons) became very scare - almost extinct because of certain pesticides, such as DDT so for many years there were very few to be seen. Those pesticides were banned and numbers gradualy recovered to the level they are today - probably about the maximum that the environemnt can support. You can regularly see sparow hawks and peregrins in towns and cities - sometimes nesting on tall buildings.

It's not nice to see "your" small birds being taken but I have to say that I think the recovery in the population of these magnificant predators is something I cherish.