Have we got the priority right?

[sesentayuno]

Is it just me or was it painful to watch when the house gang up on Shabaaz? I know he is not the most popular guy and can be very very very annoying but my heart went out to him when I saw how he was being bullied :(

What annoys me most I think was that the bullying of Jodi Marsh (?) in the celebrity big brother house was everywhere in the press but IMHO what Shabaaz went through was worse.

Do we have out priorities right? Is our press sending the right signals to the young audience?

Ses

[tact77]

What happened with shabbaz, I missed the whole thing.

[sesentayuno]

They lock him out of the house with a belt tied to the sliding doors handle, then did the demeaning thing of saying we should feed him through the gap and chuck out crisps packet through it (all these happened with the housemates laughing in the background, they were obviously enjoying this). Later when he was in the pool and they decide to pretend that they are unlocking the door and all that and took his clothes and ran back into the house, they didn't show more after that but it was just plain cruel.

Ses

[Bonkers Mad!!!]

i agree, he was bullied relentlessly :( i know he did nothing to help himself but there is no excuse for that kind of merciless torment :angry: i felt really sorry for Pete who obviously found it painful to watch somebody going through that, the poor lad had no idea how to go about standing up for shebaz.

[Beth]

yes they did bully him to a certain extent, however he started it first ;)

by the second day he had made it clear that the others were all stupid as he had more life experiance and told them that to their faces,

he refused to work as a team, saying he was in charge and they should respect him

and right to the last day he was in there and delibratly change the shopping list from what a group had agreed on, while he was in the diary room alone placing the order!! just ordered what he wanted!

and then there was the hiding of the remaining food.....

and did you notice how when the lack of suitcase thing was happening, everyone else agreed to share their clothes apart from him ;)

I dont agree with bullying in any form, but you can sorta see why they did it

[tiomet]

I did feel very sorry for Shabaz and he was sent to Coventry and hounded out of the house.

Who knows if there was another way they could have handled it, there was no opportunity to find out and while they are seemingly nice people individually it just goes to show what a gang can do. Scary isn't it?

I cannot recall the name of the experiment but recall when doing Psyhology1 at uni we went over one where it established that it took only three people in agreement to influence the behaviour and judgment of a fourth. In this case there was a mock job interview and the interviewee, who was a normal, nice person was persuaded by the three interveiwers that they really wanted him in the position but the incumbent was failing to leave. Eventually they convinced him to connive with them to kill the person.

So not too far a stretch when you have people with an air of authority and conviction like Richard and Cezar heading up a hit squad that the rest fell that side of the fence. That they led the hate crime from a stand of being protective and caring about the group added value to their argument.

Sad, isn't it? Makes you question the nature of `good'

Pete has likely been bullied and excluded while growing up and he would have more empathy. Good for him and how sad that he had to have his good nature challenged.

[Jimble]

(Please don't take this in any other way than the personal opinion that
it is.)

It's strange to think that as a forum we regulaly tell others in the forum
to stand up for themselves against bullies, we regulaly tell other forumites
to seek the help of people who will back them up and help against bullies.

yet when on big brother the housemates did this against shabaz we find it unsettling
and a form of bullying.

Shabaz consistantly wound up the other housemates, invaded their personal space
and said something at one point that was Akin to "if I don't find trouble I will make it."
He started bullying other people and was offensive even when asked not to be
by BB and the other housemates

I support sending shabaz to coventry but individuals got carried away and the defensive
form turned into bullying, but it was individual bullying and not from the group.
(although you could say that the group condoned it by doing nothing.)

We know that two wrongs don't make a right,
that every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
and that we reap what we sow.

But I think what has come out of the shabaz issue for me is
when does standing up for yourself stop and become a form of bullying?

I'm sorry I seem to have gone on abit
and I have expanded on what I was originally going to say, but
I have been thinking about this and needed to get it out.

[sesentayuno]

Glad to spark off a friendly exchange of views, I agree with Jimble that it might come across slightly hyprocritical for us to be saying one thing when it comes to giving advice about NFH and when commenting on BB. Unfortunately, this is not as straight forward because many different elements have to be taken into account. I am not very good in explaining myself but I will try :)

Say if a local thug started having a go at another person, then that is wrong on his part, and if the victim harness enough support to get the local thug off his back, prehaps through exclusion or maybe even physical force. But when the local thug has retreated and has stopped and they then mount an offensive then it is wrong IMHO. I don't believe I have seen (correct me if I am wrong here) that the members who supported a victim and after gaining success, encourage them to go for the kill (pardon the punt :)).

What happened in the BB house was that everyone supported everyone when it comes to Shabazz so they can hardly be called victims anymore as the balance of power has changed. Shabazz is like the local thug that has been shown his place.

There is a difference between supporting someone to fight against someone to gain what is rightfully theirs and encouraging someone to push beyond what they have rightfully gained back.

Not sure if I have made my point clear but I did warn you I am not very good at it :D

Ses

[tiomet]

You make a good point.

I wonder if there was another way of handling it other than ganging up on him in the way they did? The thing is that in an ideal community we have recourse to authorities to obtain assistance with handling the thugs, we are discoraged from being vigilantes, so the comparison blurs a bit.

There is the argument that if we behave in the same way as those who injure us we are no better than they so bullying the bullys makes bullys of us and it is a dangerous precedent, because that is the message we send out to the young.

Shabaz had problems; has problems. I thought that perhaps he was a set up for the house, acting out his inappropriate behaviours, but in the end I decided he simply had problems. Fact is that he should never have been in there in the first place. Far from being an eccentric, individual sort of person who you could let loose for a bit of television tomfoolery, he was socially inept and could not behave in a way that was acceptable.

I think it would have taken a much more skilled group than those in the house to have handled Shabbaz differently but the lack of competence so to do does not provide an excuse for bad behaviour - even in the face of his provocation.

He should have been removed from the house before the situation turned painful for all of them, including him.

[sesentayuno]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tiomet @ 27th May 2006 - 5:09 PM) 168772</div>

There is the argument that if we behave in the same way as those who injure us we are no better than they so bullying the bullys makes bullys of us and it is a dangerous precedent, because that is the message we send out to the young.

[/b]

You took the words right out of my mouth there, I couldn't have phrased it better :notworthy:

Ses

[Beth]

how would you all feel if I told you that Mr Shabaz was actually a NFH before he went on BB???

Yes it seems he was ;)

do you feel any differently now towards him??

[Matthew]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beth @ 28th May 2006 - 7:40 PM) 168873</div>
how would you all feel if I told you that Mr Shabaz was actually a NFH before he went on BB???[/b]

Big Brother 7: Cross-dresser is neighbour from hell (http://www.neighbourfromhell.co.uk/general/big_brother_7_cross-dresser_is_neighbour_from_hell/)

[sesentayuno]

I already knew that before I started the topic :), and I told my GF and she said the neighbours must be gutted to see him leave the house :(. And it would be an irony where neighbours would be voting to keep him in :D

I suppose his neighbours would be happy to see that he gets his retribution.

Ses

[marieuk]

Hi all


Not sure if i qualify to comment on this thread as i have not seen any of big brother (by choice :D ) I have heard about BB events through the news and radio etc but after reading ur thread it kind of puts things in to perspective (for me anyway :P )

If you think about it what kind of person would go in to the BB house, they have to have some of the following qualities, attention seaking, loud OTT crazy ???disrespectful opinionated and lots of others i cant think of at the mo but this is why they are picked to go in the house so it will be entertaining :D :D :D

I am not surpized that shabaz was a NFH as I have just described both of my NFH :nfh1: and i know that my NFH's mother thinks NFH is a victim as she only ever hears her side of things but just how much of the goings on do the BB production team control/edit??????????????????


I think i agreee about the standing up for ue rights etc and not let people bully you but you raise a very good question about when does standing up for ur rights become bullying, a question i am afraid i can not answer :bigeyes:


If you think this is all rubbish then thats ok as i dont watch the programme :D :D


Love Muk xxx


P.S. what is meant by sending him to coventry?? i take it you dont mean the place :bigeyes: :blink: :bigeyes: :blink:

[tiomet]

how would you all feel if I told you that Mr Shabaz was actually a NFH before he went on BB???[/b]

It would not surprise me, he is a sociopath and that would be an ideal for NFH.

But it does not change my stance, that behaving towards him as he would behave towards me would make me as bad as him.

I have had personal experience of a Shabaz in my life and it was ... appalling. For two years I had a young man attach himself to me like a limpet and treat me appallingly, like a parasite sucking everything good I could offer. He was an in-your-face abusive stalker. I eventually managed to convince him to see another therapist and thus he transferred his tentacles. I hope the other therapist will deal with it differently and does not hate me too much. :blush:

I do not say that he should not be dealt with - just in a way that is effective, and no, I do not mean violence :blink:

This is not about being a bleeding heart for the alleged underdog, it is about finding an appropriate way to deal with problems that does not mimic the problem. There is another way ... often it is hellish hard to find it, but there are almost always choices.

If Shabaz was my neighbour I would up and move because without help he will not change.

[Jimble]

Marieuk
To be sent to Coventry is to be ostracised, shunned, or otherwise systematically ignored.



Having thought about this further (sad man that I am) It would seem to me that channel 4
is to blame for the whole situation.

The people in the house (as marieuk) said are not what anyone would call "normal" and this year
they seem to be more selfcentered than most and in this case BB should really have stepped in
at an earlier stage. I'm fairly sure that in the past they have had psychologists(sp) on standby so
they should of seen this situation coming.

I would have liked to have said that at least shabaz will now find help for his problems but he
seems as oblivious to them as before. It looks like he's the sort of person that is always right.
(another nfh trait).

I have stopped watching BB this year as I can't find a housemate that I even remotely like.

[marieuk]

Thanks Jimble I feel a little bit of a fool now :blush: :blush: i thought it was some weird BB saying oh well they say you learn something new everyday!!!!! :D :D


Love Muk xxx